Dips instead of the bench press ?

[BendtheBar]

Originally Posted by gaspers04

True, I wasnt trying to be an ass. I feel that th bench alone is far superior.

Personally Gasp, I like doing benches. So I do them. I mean heck, that's really what it's about anyway. I know front squats are uber but I hate doing them so I don't. (Very often)

I did a lot of dips in my youth, and still try to do them occasionally now, but I know where you're coming from on bench. I like the Bench. I started at 95 pounds in college and it is a very satisfying movement for me.

Like I said, as long as it's a compound or bodyweight lift, I'm pretty much a fan.

[BendtheBar]

Originally Posted by Off Road

I prefer dips to bench myself, although both are excellent lifts. Obviously if powerlifting is your goal you'd want to stick to the bench press primarily. Ultimately [no matter the goal] you'd use both lifts, but I don't see any problem with alternating them like you are doing.

Here's a quote from Dr. Ken..

"Contrary to popular belief the bench press is not a very good exercise for the development of the pectoral muscles. It is fairly good for the development of the anterior deltoid and triceps, but the standing press develops these muscles as well or better (better being defined as more quickly, more directly, with the production of more power or work during an actual repetition of the exercise), as does the parallel bar dip. However, if you care to do bench presses or presses behind the neck in a standing position, feel free to do so. Perhaps you can alternate pressing movements every few weeks, every few workouts, every other workout. You will never suffer from lack of variety." - Dr. Ken Leistner

Interesting quote. I can definitely feel my pecs rippling and screaming during dips. I do get soreness from bench days, but with that said, after 25 years of benching my front delts are massive - I think they have responded more to benching than pecs.

Turns the idea that incline benches are the best pec movement for bodybuilding on its ear a bit, but that's a topic for another thread.

[Off Road]

Originally Posted by BendtheBar

Personally, I like doing benches. So I do them. I mean heck, that's really what it's about anyway.

BINGO. Well said.

[gaspers04]

I give...

[BendtheBar]

Originally Posted by gaspers04

I give...

Hey I'm on your side

I mean I'm on both sides.

Dips are harder on my shoulders at my age and weight.

Heck, I don't even think much about bodyparts when programming. Most of our advice here is for beginners anyway. Once you're an intermediate you know what's best for you. None of us would try to tell anyone different.

I think for novices using both dips & bench has a lot of value. Once they become intermediates they have made a lot of gains and I don't care what they use because they know how to gain.

[glwanabe]

I can make valid arguements to both sides of the question of bench or no bench. It does not have to be an us versus them situation.

I'm having this debate with myself right now, as I write some new programs. After going back and digging through lots of old training information, and looking at various aspects of training, including gymnastics, powerlifting, and bodybuilding, I've come to a basic answer.

The bench is a great compound movement that is not fully understood by most people.

The bench is primarily thought of as a chest movement, and while it does work the chest, it is at it's base a deltoid pressing move. Horizontal or vertical makes far less of a differance than most people would imagine. Each plane of movement does have a greater central area of stress, but, pectoral devlopment with horizonal pressing is more a matter of individual genetics.

I do think that vertical pressing should be mastered before moving into heavy horizontal pressing. Most peoples bench form is not good. Vertical pressing is a simpler form to work, and time spent in this plane of movement will build in good shoulder stability and strength, as a base to good bench numbers. Crawl before you walk, walk before you run.

For myself I find that I'm really torn between the two moves. I've built up some decent bench strength in the past, not earth shattering, but decent. I'm built in such a way that I'm pretty strong with my bench. vertical pressing is a bit more work for me, so thats where I'm concentrating my efforts right now.

Working vertical pressing and dips has not in the past hindered my bench strength. In fact I've gotten quite strong at benching without actually doing any.

There are several aspects of lifting that will determine whether benching in your program is the right move for your goals.

Powerlifter, yes, benching is a staple lift, and vertical pressing is an assistance lift.

Olympic lifting, benching is not a large part of the program, and can actually hinder performance. Some bench traiing is done by a few, but it is by and large not any large part of the program. This is due to the tightness that benching brings to the anterior dlets.

Vertical pressing and shoulder flexability are a big part of olympic lifting.


For the average gym junkie, I would suggest a much more balanced approach than is currently the norm. Bench work is given a major role, when both vertical and horizontal pressing should be given equal work.

Pressing, dipping, benching, and upper body pulling should be worked in measured amounts to each other to achieve a strong balanced upperbody.

[Fazc]

I think perhaps we should address this:

Originally Posted by abett07

after spending the last 2 months on an A/B full body workout from this site with great results

Firstly the routine is going well, why are we even entertaining the idea of changing it.

This post was made a couple of months ago in which both Benches and Dips were chosen by OP and included in a sensible routine.

Secondly either the routine wasn't stuck to, or things were changed around.

Consistency is something worth mentioning here. In reality it doesn't matter ever so much whether he does Bench or Dips, what matters is the consistency to stick it out over the long haul until big and strong.

[BendtheBar]

Originally Posted by Fazc

I think perhaps we should address this:



Firstly the routine is going well, why are we even entertaining the idea of changing it.


Secondly either the routine wasn't stuck to, or things were changed around.

Thanks for bringing this up. These are the important questions.

[abett07]

Originally Posted by Fazc

I think perhaps we should address this:



Firstly the routine is going well, why are we even entertaining the idea of changing it.

This post was made a couple of months ago in which both Benches and Dips were chosen by OP and included in a sensible routine.

Secondly either the routine wasn't stuck to, or things were changed around.

Consistency is something worth mentioning here. In reality it doesn't matter ever so much whether he does Bench or Dips, what matters is the consistency to stick it out over the long haul until big and strong.

fair points

the reason for the change was to try and gain as much strength as possible in the shortest amount of time.My current workout builds strength to no question about it but just take a look at all the starting strength routines , all of them use reps of 5 and have lots more squatting than deadlifitng

[abett07]

I suppose if something isnt broken dont fix it .I will sitck with my A/B fullbody workout .I could not of been more happy with the results I have gained so far .

thanks for feedback