Is bulking and cutting a thing of the past?

[Trevor Ross]

I've been doing some reading lately, and with all of the good information out there, there's some practices that are/maybe obsolete. I'm thinking bulking and cutting might be one of them. If you think, "You gotta get fat to get big!" there may be a better way. Insulin (carb) management is the key to getting bigger and staying relatively lean it seems, so in a nutshell if you consume your daily carbs before and after workouts, you can take advantage of the insulin spike when it counts, and not have to be concerned with getting chubby (if you care about that). For a double whammy you could take supplements that improve insulin sensitivity. Discuss.

[5kgLifter]

What's your view on this?

Personally, I've never understood anyone who gains lots of extra "fat" mass and then takes ages stripping it off, better to gain slightly less lean mass and less fat mass overall and not have to spend ages stripping lots of excess bodyfat.

[Trevor Ross]

Originally Posted by 5kgLifter

What's your view on this?

Personally, I've never understood anyone who gains lots of extra "fat" mass and then takes ages stripping it off, better to gain slightly less lean mass and less fat mass overall and not have to spend ages stripping lots of excess bodyfat.

Personally I think it B.S, I've never done a bulk cycle in my life and I got big and strong.

[Carl1174]

I think eating slightly over maintainence is ideal. If you eat too far over and your gaining fat then you are oviously eating too much as the fat is stored 'excess' calories. If you can get to the level where the calories are used to build muscle but there are no excess then that would be perfect. Trouble with that is its really tricky to do, hard to moniter and doesnt show immediate results that a lot of people thrive on.

Carl.

[MC]

I'm torn on this debate as I am still not sure what an "acceptable" ratio of fat to muscle gain would be? At one point in December it looked like I was gaining a pound of fat for every 2 pounds of muscle. I need to get my BF checked to see is this is still the case.

I have never done a proper cut and am currently just on my second planned bulk ever. The two bulking phases have been the only two times where I have put on significant weight in a regular fashion.

When I used to just lift and not focus on gaining weight (I wasn't clear on nutrition) I rarely gained and gains were slow.

So, in my mind, I feel like bulking works because it has and is helping me to get bigger.

Trevor, I've never used that kind of carb control approach. When you say you got bigger without bulking, how much weight over what period of time?

[BendtheBar]

Because of the natural gains curve, it makes more sense to lean towards a more conservative approach with each additional pound of muscle you gain.

While how aggressively you eat is up to you, it is a reality that naturals can't continue to add unending amounts of muscle, so aggressive bulks once you are past heavy beginner gains is a waste of food.

It is my opinion that if you are young and a beginner you should eat aggressively if your training is as it should be. Once you are past beginner gains, a moderate clean bulk is the way to go.

Cutting? It's for competitors. Or beach goers.

I will also mention that far too many young lifters undereat and wonder why gains aren't coming. Undereating has far more of a downside than overeating if you are training hard.

[Trevor Ross]

Originally Posted by *MC*

Trevor, I've never used that kind of carb control approach. When you say you got bigger without bulking, how much weight over what period of time?

I gained 115lbs over eight years, not all of it was pure muscle of course, but most of it is. I went from 175-190, 190-207, 207-217, 217-225, 225-230, 230-260 (God bless Louie Simmons), 260-290, and 290-275 which is my current weight.

[old school]

I've been thinking about this a lot recently

I was thinking of cutting until I am 10% bodyfat (or getting down to a 32 inch waist instead of the 33 inch waist I got now) and then going on a long bulk eating just a couple of hundred over maintenance until I go back up to around 12-13% then repeat. Is this worthwhile?

I think natural bodybuilders really need to follow a different route than steriod bodybuilders. Also will I lose any muscle going from roughly 14% to 10% and can I still build muscle on a deficit even if its small?

[glwanabe]

Originally Posted by Trevor Ross

I gained 115lbs over eight years, not all of it was pure muscle of course, but most of it is. I went from 175-190, 190-207, 207-217, 217-225, 225-230, 230-260 (God bless Louie Simmons), 260-290, and 290-275 which is my current weight.

What do you estimate is your lean body mass?

How tall are you again?

[Trevor Ross]

Originally Posted by BendtheBar

Undereating has far more of a downside than overeating if you are training hard.

Learned that the hard way lol.