Benefits of the Push/Pull split.

[Trevor Ross]

Originally Posted by glwanabe

The whole B session seems like a shotgun approach. Deadlifts, and one other move should be plenty for back work. The whole session doesn't seem very well thought out, and there is a large amount of overlap.

That's just my opinion.

Not a mess at all. Deadlifts and GHR for the hams and lower back. Shrugs and rows to the chest for the traps. Pull ups and DB rows for the lats. Drag and BB curls for the biceps. Hammer and wrist curls for the forearms.

[glwanabe]

Originally Posted by Trevor Ross

Not a mess at all.


Deadlifts and GHR for the hams and lower back.

Deads will hit nearly your whole body, including to a high degree the other muscles your doubling up moves on.

Shrugs and rows to the chest for the traps.

Hit with deads

Pull ups and DB rows for the lats.

Hit with deads, but a 2nd move, Wide grip chins is a good addition.

Drag and BB curls for the biceps.

I'd stick with one Curl movement. Biceps are also hit during deads

Hammer and wrist curls for the forearms.

Again, this group is heavily hit by deads.

Your welcome to your opinion on training, but some of what you suggest in this answer leaves me wondering a few things.

If your going to offer up training programs, and advice then you need to abide by the forum rule.

The NO BULL rule

Maybe we just see this from a different perspective, and thats fine. Your entitled to your opinion. I would not set up a session such as you have proposed. At least not for most people, and definately not for a beginner.

[Trevor Ross]

Originally Posted by glwanabe

Your welcome to your opinion on training, but some of what you suggest in this answer leaves me wondering a few things.

If your going to offer up training programs, and advice then you need to abide by the forum rule.

The NO BULL rule

Maybe we just see this from a different perspective, and thats fine. Your entitled to your opinion. I would not set up a session such as you have proposed. At least not for most people, and definately not for a beginner.

Notice when I posted that workout it was just a sample, people can adjust things to suit them, and I understand there's some spillover from certain exercises to different muscle groups. That being said this is Bodybuilding, and for some people (like myself) some direct work for certain muscle groups is needed to develop them to their full potential. If this was meant to be a strength program it would be in the strength forum, and it would be more abbreviated and laid out differently. Why wouldn't you set a program similar to this for most people anyway? Is it overtraining? Most of the drug free old schoolers used a higher set volume then this, and had much longer workouts.

[Trevor Ross]

Originally Posted by Carl1174

nice post

Carl.

Thank you, I'm glad someone likes this lol.

[glwanabe]

Originally Posted by Trevor Ross

Pull= (Upper back, Lats, Biceps, Forearms, and Hamstrings)
Push=(Chest, Triceps, Quads, Shoulders, and Calves)

1: You get to go to the gym a little more often (something I enjoy).
2: You can train on consecutive days (if you have an unpredictable schedule).
3: I think they promote better recovery then most systems.
4: Squats and Deadlifts have their own days.
5: There's more emphasis on building weak points.
6: The big lifts are still cornerstones of this style of programming.
7: It's another effective option if you're bored with your current program.
8: It splits the body more effectively then the Upper/Lower system.
9: Workouts are still around the one hour mark (providing you regulate the volume properly).
10: You can do more then one exercise per bodypart (you still have to keep volume in mind).



Bonus workout!:

A:

BB Press
DB upright row
BB Squat
Front squat
Bench press
Reverse grip bench press (to the clavicle)
BB calf raise
BB seated calf raise (sets of 20)
Dips
Close grip bench press

B:

Pull up
DB row
Deadlift
Glute/Ham raise
DB shrug
Wide grip BB row to the chest
BB curl
Drag curl
Wrist curl
Hammer curl

You have posted this as a workout, not referring to it as a sample as you say later in another post. You also do not include any other program variations using these "sample" moves.

This is a home workout friendly version, all you need is a barbell/dumbbell set, a bench, and a set of stands (a power rack is better though). You can go four days a week with a heavy/light set up, and don't lift more then two days in a row, or do a three day A/B/A, B/A/B set up.

Keep the number of sets low (3-4), the reps higher (8-12), and keep 5x5 out of this (you'll probably die lol). Train for an hour at the most. Hope someone likes this and it helps them out.

Originally Posted by Trevor Ross

It's only a 30 set workout (providing you're using 3 sets per exercise), and there's also the adaptation phase that has to be considered too.

[B]Or it can be a 40 set program with reps varying between 24-48 per movement. This is a large hole you have not covered very well in the writeup. Granted, there will always be questions about a program, but this is not ready to be presented as you have it written. IMO. [/B]

The intensity should be moderate because the frequency of the muscles being worked is moderate. It looks like more then it actually is, when I first started out I did an Upper/Lower similar to this, and I didn't feel overtrained at all. The weights just went up.

Originally Posted by Trevor Ross

Notice when I posted that workout it was just a sample,

people can adjust things to suit them, and I understand there's some spillover from certain exercises to different muscle groups.

Which people do you refer to? There is a big difference between a noobie looking for info, and an experienced lifter. The inexperienced lifter needs competant direction.

That being said this is Bodybuilding, and for some people (like myself) some direct work for certain muscle groups is needed to develop them to their full potential.

Strength training and bodybuilding go hand in hand. In either pursuit progression is king.
If this was meant to be a strength program it would be in the strength forum, and it would be more abbreviated and laid out differently.

Why wouldn't you set a program similar to this for most people anyway?

Becasue, what you have proposed is not well thought out.

Most of the drug free old schoolers used a higher set volume then this, and had much longer workouts.

We can get into classic style training in another thread. Even then, they realized that there was a HUGE difference between new, and experienced lifters.

You have a lot of info in these three post that starts to go around in cirlces.
Your statement about not working this as a 5x5 scheme is cause for question.
You say to work it as 3-4 sets for up to 8-12 reps. Well, whats the plan?

5x5=25 reps
3x8=24 reps
4x8=32 reps
3x12=36 reps
4x12=48 reps


Trevor,

I'm not trying to be rude to you. But this whole program writeup is very incomplete.

There are a lot of people who look at these boards without ever posting, who use the info that is posted. I would not want somebody to use this program to try and do a workout from it. It is just too incomplete and leaves to many holes for the inexperienced to try and figure out.


Also, as was previously said. If you want to contribute training advice on the board, then we need to know who you are.

[Trevor Ross]

Originally Posted by glwanabe

Trevor,

I'm not trying to be rude to you. But this whole program writeup is very incomplete.

There are a lot of people who look at these boards without ever posting, who use the info that is posted. I would not want somebody to use this program to try and do a workout from it. It is just too incomplete and leaves to many holes for the inexperienced to try and figure out.


Also, as was previously said. If you want to contribute training advice on the board, then we need to know who you are.

I got a solution, here it is, and by the way once I stopped giving a s@#$ about my 1RM and focused on making the muscle do the work (and picking "my right/optimal" exercises), I progressed, and people don't really need their ass wiped for them either (in regards to newbies). You just have to keep an open mind with a filter, and people can get big and strong on two way split routines.

Pull= (Upper back, Lats, Biceps, Forearms, and Hamstrings)
Push=(Chest, Triceps, Quads, Shoulders, and Calves)

1: You get to go to the gym a little more often (something I enjoy).
2: You can train on consecutive days (if you have an unpredictable schedule).
3: I think they promote better recovery then most systems.
4: Squats and Deadlifts have their own days.
5: There's more emphasis on building weak points.
6: The big lifts are still cornerstones of this style of programming.
7: It's another effective option if you're bored with your current program.
8: It splits the body more effectively then the Upper/Lower system.
9: Workouts are still around the one hour mark (providing you regulate the volume properly).
10: You can do more then one exercise per bodypart (you still have to keep volume in mind).

Taylor it to your own needs & style of training.