Fullbody vs Split routines.

[glwanabe]

Originally Posted by Trevor Ross

Paul Anderson was an Upper/Lower guy as far as I know. Don't take me too seriously, it seems the way I phrase things when I type touches the wrong nerve for some reason. Maybe I need an e-etiquette lesson.

Trevor,

It's all good man. I wasn't offended by anything that you wrote.

[Kyle Aaron]

Full-body routines are better for beginners, if only because it helps them stick to it and progress the resistance.

I come from the perspective of looking at what does and doesn't work for ordinary people in gyms. "Ordinary people" are beginners. I don't pretend to know what works for advanced trainees, it's not relevant to my day-to-day life. How to get your bench from 200 to 210kg or your bodyfat from 10 to 8% does not really matter in a place where the biggest bench is 100kg and the lowest bodyfat is in that anoreic chick nobody knows how to approach to help her. The vast majority of people in gyms are beginners, so this is what I worry about. The advanced people can take care of themselves.

So I look at ordinary people in gyms. Here we have to forget the physiology, and look at psychology. The best routine is the one you stick to and progress the resistance on: so what routines are people likely to stick to and progress the resistance on?

Most people in gyms are doing split routines. And they are getting no results. However, they are not doing progressive resistance training. They're doing different exercises every session or doing the same exercises but doing the same weight, reps and sets for years on end. They are not progressing the resistance. So of course their body stays the same.

There is no question that a split routine of progressive resistance training will get at least some results. Whether those are more or less than a fullbody routine could be debated, but in truth it's not really relevant. However, most people with split routines do not progress the resistance, whereas most people with fullbody routines do.

I'm thinking of actual gym members here. The guy doing dumbbell flyes and tricep pushdowns looks exactly the same as he did six months ago, and still wears long loose trackpants even though it's 30C and 80% humidity in the gym today. The guy doing squat, overhead press and deadlift has added 6kg to his bodyweight and got to deadlifting 1.5 times his bodyweight in 8 weeks and a trainer has asked if he's on steroids. The woman doing curls and tricep kickbacks and leg extensions still has the same large bum she had six months ago and misses sessions to have coffee and cake with her friends, while the woman squatting close to her bodyweight and deadlifting a bit over her bodyweight not only comes in even when she's sick and on antibiotics, she also has grown her hamstrings and glutes, her suit skirt fits tighter but she likes it.

Thus, whatever the physiology of it all, the psychology is that fullbody routines are better for encouraging progressive resistance training in beginners. And almost everyone is a beginner. Thus, as a trainer I encourage fullbody routines.

This does not mean everyone does barbell squat, deadlift and bench press. But everyone gets an exercise with a deep knee-bend, pick something heavy up off the ground and put something heavy overhead. And there are a zillion different exercises which do that.

Bodyweight goblet squats, inverted rows with knees bent, pushups from knees
Bodyweight split squats, inverted rows, pushups
Machine leg press, lat pulldown, iso-lateral chest press
Dumbbell goblet squats, bent-over rows, overhead press
Kettlebell sumo squat, snatch, overhead press
(etc)

Full-body routines are better for beginners, if only because it helps them stick to it and progress the resistance.

[Kyle Aaron]

Originally Posted by Trevor Ross

Paul Anderson was an Upper/Lower guy as far as I know.

Paul Anderson's workouts are described here.

A typical Anderson workout usually required three to four hours to complete.

Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday

Full squat - 600 - 2x10
825 - 2 reps
845 - 2 reps
900 - 2 reps
Half squats - 1200 - 2 reps
Quarter squats - 1800 - 2 reps
Deadlift - 650 - 4x6-8 reps

Monday, Wednesday, Friday

Press off rack, 300 - 6 reps
400 - 2 reps
390 - 2 reps
370 - 2 reps
Press outs, 500 pounds, several sets of 4 reps from about the sticking point in the press to overhead.
Press from shoulders to top of head - 500, 4 reps.
Push press off rack - 450, 3 reps.
Bench press - 400 to 450, sets of 6-8 reps.
Handstand presses against wall.

If you are squatting 600lbs and putting 300lbs overhead for a warmup, and doing 1,800lb quarter-squats and 500lb pressouts, then I would definitely suggest you do a split routine.

Most of us are not doing anything close to that.

[BendtheBar]

Anderson evolved his training out of the fullbody approaches from that era. Though it was a "split" in some ways like Hepburn's, it in no way resembled what is considered a split in modern bodybuilder. It pulled squats out of the equation and gave them their own days.

Besides, we are talking muscle building and not strength building. From a strength building standpoint, upper-lowers are a good idea, especially if you're moving a lot of iron.

I am focusing on muscle building workouts for average people who want to build muscle, because that is how the thread started - talking about muscle building. Advanced lifters will always train in a way that has evolved to fit their own needs. They are bad examples because the rules they use don't apply to average people in gyms.

Neither Anderson nor Hepburn used what any gym rat would consider a "split". In fact, if the average bodybuilding magazine reader looked at Hepburn or Anderson's routines, and didn't know who wrote them, they most likely would dismiss them.

Anderson and Hepburn both used primarily heavy compound lifts and Olympic lifts. Their routines were far more fullbody and classic in nature than they were bodybuilding split. They in no way had 4-5 different exercises meant to bomb and blitz a muscle from every angle, nor were they focused on 1-2 bodyparts per day.

Their philosophies are very much inline with my own. Basics, heavy compounds and progression.

[Trevor Ross]

Does anyone agree with these formulas? This seems to be the current way of thinking.

More exercises less sets=size
More sets less exercises=strength

[Trevor Ross]

For years I thought a split routine in fact was just splitting a fullbody workout in half. Since I never bought (and rarely ever read muscle comics). I wasn't familiar with bodypart splits until a few years ago, and I was better off not knowing about them it seems.