The MAB, Classic Physique Challenge.

[BendtheBar]

Originally Posted by bamazav

Great write up Carl. Might be helpful and fun if all of us participating in the challenge did a similar write up. Maybe a "Fullbody Lessons Learned" theme. What do you all think?

Great idea. GL and I would also love to feature them on a secret project we are working on.

[Carl1174]

Originally Posted by BendtheBar

Great idea. GL and I would also love to feature them on a secret project we are working on.

Like I said before Steve, anything I can do to help

Carl.

[BendtheBar]

Thanks Carl.

[glwanabe]

[quote]

Originally Posted by Carl1174

6 Weeks in to the challenge and doing a Fullbody (properly) for the first time. i say that because i have done one before, but i ran it for about a month when i first started, before i was told by the other people in the gym that a 'split' would build WAY more muscle than a fullbody, cos fullbodies are only any good for beginners !!!!!

I have had the same experience myself. It was not until I set my goal of having a classic physique that I started to really look at what fullbody training was about.

I mistakenly thought that certain aspects were outdated, and that the methods needed to be updated. I was wrong in this assumption.

I have watched you and Tim closely, and have watched your weights move up, and how you were working your sets. I knew that both of you wanted to move into program as fast as possible, and since both of you had developed some good strength, I let you guys run with the ball, so to speak.

Just a quick word on the program. I am running the Reeves Classic. Im not a beginner by any means to weight training, but Im no where near advanced either, im just like most people. i have worked out, sometime had lay off, sometimes changed routines, normally for something that will 'definitely give me better result, but never really did. I have however I think finally settled in to the program. it has taken me 6 weeks to adapt with a couple, well a few mistakes along the way.

You and Tim are solidly in the program, and have both worked your top sets up to some good poundages. Like I mentioned to you in another thread, I'll mention it here again, in this thread.

Both of you have enjoyed "newbie gains" to this point. Your both about halfway into really buuilding some solid conditioning. Now we are going to fine tune your programs, and set you up to seriously cruise.

You have both added in a few of the intermediate aspects, and that extra work will again need to be accounted for during the week, so as to not overtax what you can handle.

I have done the same thing with my own program, as I have also worked back up to a point close to my old worksets. In some ways the program will seem easier, but at the end of the week, you will be worked hard.

Your top sets are going to become serious work

The mistakes I have made have all been around doing too much. I have wanted to push the progression to get myself back to where I was before I started the program, using the same kind of weights.

I want the same things Carl, I've said it over and over in my own log. I've pushed hard at times. Maybe too hard, but I didn't let myslef go over the edge this time.

We lift heavy shit for fun! It's natural for us to want to progress.

Mistake number 1. The weights I used before (ie on a split, 5/3/1, whatever) are irrelevant. The rep ranges were different, the work preceading the exercise was different and the exercise its self was probably different.

Mistake Number 2. I have pushed the progression to hard at times. I havent stalled, and I havent gone backwards. I have made good progrress, but I could have done it a bit more gradually. I have pushed too hard and ended up aching (a lot), a bit tired and this has (slightly) affected the remaining workouts for the week.

Mistake Number 3. I have taken my eye of the fact that the 'weeks session' is what you are trying to get through. I have fallen victim at times of the split mentality of batter yourself into submission on every workout cos you have a week before that muscle is worked again. The 'muscle' worked on the fullbody program is the 'fullbosy' itself. Dont batter it in to submission every workout, because it needs to be worked again in 48 hours. Push progression at all times, but dont it at the expense of the rest of the weeks work. If you are gonna 'rep out' then do it on the last session so you have 2 days off to recover.

Yes, these are the mistakes that most people make, but I was watching what you guys were doing, and more than once nearly had you pull things back. I was waiting until a certain point was reached by both you and Tim.

That point has been reached!

Here's what we need to modify.
Your top worksets are fine where they are. I'll use my last session as an example.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wed Feb 23rd

squats
1x12x135
1x12x185
1x12x235 up 3 reps, rep goal met!! 6 sessions to get here.

BB Rows
1x12x135
2x12x145 up 2 reps, rep goal hit.

BHNP
3x9x105 up 3 reps

Bench

1x12x135
1x12x155
1x12x175

BB Curl
1x9x80
2x8x80

Dips
10 10 10 6 6 =42 total

Calf Raise
3x16x275

My session from the Feb 25th

reworked several aspects of my weight progressions. You simply cannot continue the big gains you get when moving into this program. I'll explain this in greater detail in a different writeup.


Squats
1x8x140 approx 50% of known max. this is the proper weight to start at.
1x8x190 2nd set adds about 10-15% more weight.
1x8x240 1 heavy workset per session.

Upped weight 5lbs and dropped reps across.

Squats have been in the proper place for the most part. I decided to go easy at this point and only add 5lbs.

At this point in the program after having worked back up to a top workset close to my old worksets, it is important to make sure that the first two sets are not too hard.

1st set should be easy, and is a true warmup set.
2nd set should be a little work but you should have no issue completing it.
3rd set is a true workset.


Deadlifts

1x5x185 was supposed to be 155lbs. oops!
1x5x205
1x5x275 This puts me solidly over 300 again for 1 rep.

BHNP

1x8x90
1x8x100
1x8x110

Reworked weight progression. Been slowly building strength back up to get to this point. I'm ready to build some delts.

Bench

1x8x140 approx 50% of known best max
1x8x160
1x8x180

added weight, dropped reps

BB CURL

1x8x50
1x8x65
1x8x80

Same deal as the rest.

Dips

22 10 8 7 3= 50total

Calf Raise

2x17x275
1x13x275


Notice between Wed, and Friday how I went down on a few starting weight sets. I have made my first two sets much more progressive across the entire session, while leaving my topsets alone. I had added notes to this workout in my log as to what I was doing. Notice my notes on approx poundages you should be using, and how you should approach those sets.

This is also how you should work your sets as you work to a point where your pushing some heavier weights. Again, it is the weeks worth of work. Your still doing 3 heavy sets a week. If those truely are good heavy final sets then your pushing plenty hard.

1x12x300lbs done 3x a week is a lot of work. Add in both of the warmup sets, and how they require a bit of your strength and that 300 is more like 325-350 3x a week.

You will not be able to do 9 sets at top weight through the week. You don't do 9 sets at top weight on a split. You only do a few maybe 3 heavy worksets. That is the same concept here. Your first set should be about the weight you intially started the program at. Your 2nd set about in the middle of the three. Or using % values about like I noted in my log example.

You should spread out your weights across the three sets for all your moves. Work hard, but don't overwork. This becomes crucial as you lift heavier weights.

You allow all your sets to increrease in weight from this point as you continue to reach rep goals.

I am not an authority on this type of workout, but I have dipped my toe in the fullbody water and hopefully if someone else is thinking of doing it too they can learn from my mistakes. I have still however, had great success with this program. it is exciting and fresh everytime I step in the gym. I haven't really stalled and definitely havent gone backwards. Now, however it is time to get serious. At 6 weeks in your are primed to work the program well. I have dropped the weights/reps back a little on a couple of sets, so i can now build steadily as my 'newbie fullbody gains' are drying up and I am starting to move some proper weight again.

I said don't compare the weight to what has been lifted before, because you dont lift the same amount of weight as you would on a split, mainly beacuse of the exercise order and because I have always trained in the 6-8 rep range and those few extra reps per set really do make you work. That being said even taking all that in to account I am still gonna be lifting the same or heavier weights than I ever have before soon on this program AND for more reps. Now let someone tell you that a fullbody is only for beginners, or you will build more muscle on a split. Then tell them to go back to flex magazine and boil their head

hope this helps

It helped!

[bamazav]

Originally Posted by BendtheBar

Great idea. GL and I would also love to feature them on a secret project we are working on.

I will work on my thoughts in the coming days.

GL and Carl, thanks for posting your words of wisdom. I may not add much, but I have learned a lot. Thanks!

[bamazav]

Lessons learned with Classic Training

1. Newer, Bigger, More is not always better, Better is Better. Start with a focus on learning how to do the exercise correctly. Without a machine, more of your body plays a part in every lift. Incorrect form can cause an injury, so seek to do every exercise better and that will help ensure better progression and work, leading to better results.

2. Schedule recovery time. Fullbody training is very taxing on your body. When using a Body part split, each body part gets a week to recover from direct activity. With a fullbody routine, your body only gets a day during the week and two on the weekend between session. As we age, the wear and tear reaks havoc on joints and connective tissues. Every 4th or 5th week, I take 5 - 7 days off to allow my body to recover.

3. If training alone, use a rack or at the very least, do not use clips to secure the weights. We all will have a time when we will have to dump the weights. 200 lbs on the neck does not feel good, just as the RB from USC. (Make sure kids and pets are not in vicinity when you have to dump, nearly killed our dog once.)

4. If you fail to squat you fail! Bold statement that I am sure while be disagreed with in the general room. The muscles below the waist are the biggest muscles of the body, the squat and its variations are the king at working them. Since I have had back surgery in the past, I vary the style of squat so that I do not constantly have pressure on my spinal column, but I squat every session. Learn to goblet squat, back squat, front squat, hack squat, zercher squat, jefferson squat and overhead squat. Put away the pride and start with just a bar and then apply my first point above.

5. Set your ego aside and focus on your body not on your numbers. I was so focused on getting my numbers up that I found myself doing two dangerous things. a. I was just slinging the weight around to accomplish a lift with no concern or focus on how it was working or affecting my body and b. I was injuring myself. I have become smarter. While I vary my exercises every month or so, they have a purpose in mind. I stay with my basic routine, squat variation, OH Press variation, Chest Press Variation, Row variation, one day a week a DL variation and then accessory work. Now, I focus on how can I work my muscles the best, most efficiently, with good honest progression and little risk of injury. I see it as the difference between body building and weight lifting. Classical Body Building focuses on how can we build that classic look and uses weights as the tools for building, weightlifting focuses on how much weight you can lift and uses the body as the tool.

Finally, I have learned that you need to have fun. If your training is not fun, then you are doing something wrong. If you do not enjoy what you are doing, you will quit sooner rather then later.

[BendtheBar]

Great writeup. Fun? What's that? Ah yes, fun.

Things have become so OCD and argumentative in this industry that fun is often stripped at the door.

[bamazav]

Originally Posted by BendtheBar

Great writeup. Fun? What's that? Ah yes, fun.

Things have become so OCD and argumentative in this industry that fun is often stripped at the door.

If it isn't fun, then what is the use? I want to look forward to hitting the gym, not dread it.

[Carl1174]

Great write up Bam... I agree with everything in there.

Leave the ego behind, it is no use to you on thisd program. You have to SQUAT and definitely it should be fun. I am loving getting to the gym everyday now. I have NEVER gone 7 weeks without missing a session before, always had a reason to put it off, re-schedule etc etc... i think the combination of the ever evolving feel to the routine and the fact that I get 4 days rest each week has worked really well for me. It has stopped me being perpetually overtrained i think. I have always worked at least 4 days before and the gain here seem to be as good as ever, and i get an extra day off

Carl.

[bamazav]

Originally Posted by Carl1174

Great write up Bam... I agree with everything in there.

Leave the ego behind, it is no use to you on thisd program. You have to SQUAT and definitely it should be fun. I am loving getting to the gym everyday now. I have NEVER gone 7 weeks without missing a session before, always had a reason to put it off, re-schedule etc etc... i think the combination of the ever evolving feel to the routine and the fact that I get 4 days rest each week has worked really well for me. It has stopped me being perpetually overtrained i think. I have always worked at least 4 days before and the gain here seem to be as good as ever, and i get an extra day off

Carl.

It has been fun watching you grow into this style of training. I am glad I returned. I liked my splits, especially the push/pull/legs, but I am loving me some FB!