Where did this theory stem from?

[sleepingdog]

Originally Posted by SecondsOut

well no, nevermind then. if you're not a beginner then you should probably stick to your routine and not do SS.

Starting strenght is a great program. I don't know whether I consider myself a beginner(in comparison to the experience some here have) or an intermediate(based off my lifting), but I'm feeling great about SS. It has all the makings of an effective program. Simplicity, progression, sustainability, and enough weight is used to stimulate growth in most people. I will be trying other programs as I progress, but I will probably keep this one at the ready should I ever need a break from a more advanced program.

[Off Road]

Like BtB said, you will end up training degrees of each type of hypertrophy and will never be sure where the percentages differ within your routine. To even try to do that would drive you mad and steer you off the path of progression. Just keep sets and reps moderate and you'll be sure to be hitting both.

If after a couple of years you have built a solid physique, then start adding more volume and specialized movements to refine you physique further into the bodybuilding realm.

If after a couple of years you are moving mountains of weight, start lowering the reps to train your body to express its strength in a max attempt.

If you aren't that well built or super strong after a couple of years, well, welcome to the real world that the rest of us live in

[MikeM]

Haha! Touche, OR!

I also think you're thinking too much about this sarcoplastic or myofibular growth thing. It's really not that important early on. Some studies show that it is kind of a myth anyway that fluid big muscles will actually last any length of time, but point is it's not important.

My take on all this is that the human body repsponds to demands as best it can. If you hammer high reps, it will send blood and fluid to meet those demands. Do curls to failure and your arms are tight as a drum afterward, but next day, they are back to normal. Do that 2-3 times a week and you'll stay pumped up all the time until you stop doing it 2-3 times a week. You'll get bigger over time, sure, but not optimal for strength.

DO low reps all the time and body will send blood and fluid to meet those demands, but the body can't meet them with just fluid, so it builds thicker fibers too. Again, do that all the time and you build more and thicker fibers, sure, but do that 2-3 times week and you can't recover enough and again it's not optimal growth for strength or size, although you will get stronger over time.

Beginners need the best of both worlds, medium reps as OR is saying. Build the base strength. The further you go along, you'll specialize more of one than the other, but I think this point is lost sometimes in that you still need to do both high and low reps no matter what level you are.

BBers might live on high reps, but they need some low reps sprinkled in too to minimize their loss of size when fluid is no longer available.

Powerlifters hate to hear it, but while they live on low reps, they need high reps sprinkled in too, so that all those new thicker fibers they are building have some room to grow into.

That's my .02

[LindenGarcia18]

Originally Posted by MikeM

Haha! Touche, OR!

I also think you're thinking too much about this sarcoplastic or myofibular growth thing. It's really not that important early on. Some studies show that it is kind of a myth anyway that fluid big muscles will actually last any length of time, but point is it's not important.

My take on all this is that the human body repsponds to demands as best it can. If you hammer high reps, it will send blood and fluid to meet those demands. Do curls to failure and your arms are tight as a drum afterward, but next day, they are back to normal. Do that 2-3 times a week and you'll stay pumped up all the time until you stop doing it 2-3 times a week. You'll get bigger over time, sure, but not optimal for strength.

DO low reps all the time and body will send blood and fluid to meet those demands, but the body can't meet them with just fluid, so it builds thicker fibers too. Again, do that all the time and you build more and thicker fibers, sure, but do that 2-3 times week and you can't recover enough and again it's not optimal growth for strength or size, although you will get stronger over time.

Beginners need the best of both worlds, medium reps as OR is saying. Build the base strength. The further you go along, you'll specialize more of one than the other, but I think this point is lost sometimes in that you still need to do both high and low reps no matter what level you are.

BBers might live on high reps, but they need some low reps sprinkled in too to minimize their loss of size when fluid is no longer available.

Powerlifters hate to hear it, but while they live on low reps, they need high reps sprinkled in too, so that all those new thicker fibers they are building have some room to grow into.

That's my .02

Just guess I dont like the idea of increasing the sarcoplasm in my muscles, seems very superfitial considering all the hard work you put in.
I like the idea of gaining real bigger muscle fibres, but sarcoplasm does'nt appeal to me in the slightest.

Based on what you and the others have said, is there no avoiding it then?

[leefarley]

Originally Posted by LindenGarcia18

Just guess I dont like the idea of increasing the sarcoplasm in my muscles, seems very superfitial considering all the hard work you put in.
I like the idea of gaining real bigger muscle fibres, but sarcoplasm does'nt appeal to me in the slightest.

Based on what you and the others have said, is there no avoiding it then?

omg like every has said there is no need to worry about this stuff, atm any hows, just lift and progress.

[LindenGarcia18]

Originally Posted by leefarley

omg like every has said there is no need to worry about this stuff, atm any hows, just lift and progress.

Yeah I know, and As I said multiple times, I'm not worried as it doesn't effect me, atleast not now like you said.
The reason I started this thread was because I was interested to find out the truth about this.

[leefarley]

Originally Posted by LindenGarcia18

Yeah I know, and As I said multiple times, I'm not worried as it doesn't effect me, atleast not now like you said.
The reason I started this thread was because I was interested to find out the truth about this.

well it sounds like it does, end of.

[MikeM]

How will you know it to avoid it? Are you going to measure your arms daily to see if they pump and recede later? Are you afraid you'll be tricked into puffy muscles by those pesky reps you have to do anyway?

If you have a decent balance of higher reps and lower reps or simply stay in a moderate rep zone you will get bigger and stronger.

There is no one in the world who has exclusively puffy useless muscles that deflate at the end of the day. There's also no one out there who has exclusively hard dense muscles but no real size to them.

Everybody is going to get a balance of both as they go along. Much later, they will manipulate thier individual reactions to high and low reps to their particular advantage in their particular sport.

But for a really long time, everybody does both and it is not something to obsess about.

[jdmalm123]

Originally Posted by MikeM

everybody does both and it is not something to obsess about.

Hell, yeah! I'll take anything that ends in "hypertrophy!"

[LindenGarcia18]

I've told everyone this 3 times now.

I already made a thread about this.
This one as I've said , was for my minds benifit, I wanted to learn more about the way muscles work.
I'm not obsessing, I'm on a 5x5 now and have been for the past month, following the basic strength and muscle building principles.
Just wanted to clear that up for the 3rd time now on this post, so that I don't get accused of obsessing over irrelevant things again.
I AM actively on a program, I just wanted to educate myself further on the things that confused me.
That doesn't mean I'm sat here, being stressed over weather I'm building real or fluid based muscle.

Mike - Going back to what you said, isn't it possible though to lean more to one type of hypertrophy, depending on your training style?

I know this doesn't apply to a beginner like me, and I'm not asking it to, but
Obviously powerlifters are stronger than bodybuilders so surly that proves that your building more contractile muscle tissue doing low reps, and utilizing more myofibrillar hypertrophy.