Muscle and Brawn Forums
 

Go Back   Muscle and Brawn Forums > Training > Muscle Building and Bodybuilding


Muscle Building and Bodybuilding Topics related to muscle building, bodybuilding, including training and fullbody workouts. If you are looking for great advice on gaining muscle this forum is for you.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 01-23-2013, 11:56 PM   #1 (permalink)
BendtheBar
is after a 2000 raw total.
Bearded Beast of Duloc
Max Brawn
Points: 1,043,838, Level: 100 Points: 1,043,838, Level: 100 Points: 1,043,838, Level: 100
Activity: 99% Activity: 99% Activity: 99%
 
BendtheBar's Avatar
 
Extreme Mini Golf Champion!Tournaments Won: 6

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 68,472
Training Exp: 20+ years
Training Type: Fullbody
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Fav Supp: Butter
My Mood: Lurking
Reputation: 1784106
BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!
Default DOMS - Crameri et al (2007)

I referenced this study in a recent video and article. I might have been somewhat confusing in the video. The point I made was that DOMS, or soreness, wasn't from muscle inflammation but from connective tissue inflammation.

Here is a quote that talks about this in greater detail:

Why Your Muscles Get Sore: Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness (DOMS) and Exercise ? Myosynthesis

Quote:
A study by Crameri et al (2007) indicates that muscle damage doesn’t really correlate to soreness...

The pain of DOMS was actually attributed to the inflammation of the extracellular matrix – which is connective tissue that binds the muscle fibers together.

All of this would strongly indicate that connective tissues are the source of the actual pain and soreness, not the muscle fibers themselves. The damaging effects of exercise on actual muscle fibers don’t correlate with pain.

This is of interest because it means that inflammation and pain don’t indicate damaged muscle fibers per se. There’s tissue damage, and muscle fibers can be damaged along with that, but there’s no actual relation between muscle fiber damage and the pain you feel.

Taken together, there’s a very good chance that the processes behind DOMS and those responsible for muscle growth are only loosely related.
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Let bravery be thy choice, but not bravado."


Support MAB by Shopping with Muscle & Strength:


Last edited by BendtheBar; 01-24-2013 at 12:06 AM.
BendtheBar is online now   Reply With Quote


3 members found this post helpful.
Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Old 01-24-2013, 12:00 AM   #2 (permalink)
BendtheBar
is after a 2000 raw total.
Bearded Beast of Duloc
Max Brawn
Points: 1,043,838, Level: 100 Points: 1,043,838, Level: 100 Points: 1,043,838, Level: 100
Activity: 99% Activity: 99% Activity: 99%
 
BendtheBar's Avatar
 
Extreme Mini Golf Champion!Tournaments Won: 6

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 68,472
Training Exp: 20+ years
Training Type: Fullbody
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Fav Supp: Butter
My Mood: Lurking
Reputation: 1784106
BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!
Default

From Wiki:

Quote:
In biology, the extracellular matrix (ECM) is the extracellular part of animal tissue that usually provides structural support to the animal cells in addition to performing various other important functions. The extracellular matrix is the defining feature of connective tissue in animals.
Extracellular matrix includes the interstitial matrix and the basement membrane.[1] Interstitial matrix is present between various animal cells (i.e., in the intercellular spaces). Gels of polysaccharides and fibrous proteins fill the interstitial space and act as a compression buffer against the stress placed on the ECM.[2] Basement membranes are sheet-like depositions of ECM on which various epithelial cells rest.
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Let bravery be thy choice, but not bravado."


Support MAB by Shopping with Muscle & Strength:

BendtheBar is online now   Reply With Quote


2 members found this post helpful.
Share with Facebook
Old 01-24-2013, 08:46 AM   #3 (permalink)
Off Road
has no status.
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 13,109, Level: 74 Points: 13,109, Level: 74 Points: 13,109, Level: 74
Activity: 100% Activity: 100% Activity: 100%
 
Off Road's Avatar
 
Yeti Sports 1- Bloody Pingu Champion!Tournaments Won: 9

Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 6,044
Reputation: 547976
Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!


Default

That's the way I've always understood it too. I have never seen the illustration before, that is helpful. I've went round-and-round with the guys that think soreness is muscle fiber damage and that equates to growth (train for soreness). They will constantly switch routines or exercises chasing that soreness. I'm not saying soreness can't be used as some type of indicator, just that it doesn't mean what most lifters think it means and actively seeking it is just spinning their wheels.
Off Road is online now   Reply With Quote


2 members found this post helpful.
Share with Facebook
Old 01-24-2013, 11:59 AM   #4 (permalink)
5kgLifter
loves teddy bears...
Kettlebells' Angel !!!!
Max Brawn
Points: 17,596, Level: 84 Points: 17,596, Level: 84 Points: 17,596, Level: 84
Activity: 61% Activity: 61% Activity: 61%
 
5kgLifter's Avatar
Default

Well, considering massage of the golgi tendons relieves muscle pain more readily and for longer than massage of the muscle belly, that kind of makes perfect sense.
__________________
Doh!
5kgLifter is offline   Reply With Quote


1 members found this post helpful.
Share with Facebook
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
2007, crameri, doms


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Asymmetrical DOMS LtL General Fitness & Health 9 01-17-2012 05:52 PM
Jim Wendler at the BIG seminar, 2007 Aurik Video Compilations 2 07-21-2011 09:38 AM
Attack of the DOMS (Muscle Soreness) BendtheBar Muscle Building and Bodybuilding 18 02-04-2011 05:04 PM
More food for thought.....DOMS AthleteCreator General Fitness & Health 8 10-29-2009 09:30 PM

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:27 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2013, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC2