Thoughts on overtraining

[Off Road]

Originally Posted by Kuytrider

*Incidentally, I recently read that McRobert thinks a 300 bench, 400 squat and 500 dead is almost the maximum limit for a 'hardgainer'.

You would be WRONG. McRobert stated that ANYBODY should be able to reach those numbers in a few years if training properly. Nowhere does he say those are maximums; more like a minimum.

It's usually the anti-hardgainers that come up with that crap about McRobert. He says that overtraining is possible and there are ways to avoid it. No different than the messages spoken by Simmons, Wendler, Starr, and hundreds of others. People just like to pick on Stuart; he's an easy target.

[Kuytrider]

Originally Posted by Off Road

You would be WRONG. McRobert stated that ANYBODY should be able to reach those numbers in a few years if training properly. Nowhere does he say those are maximums; more like a minimum.

It's usually the anti-hardgainers that come up with that crap about McRobert. He says that overtraining is possible and there are ways to avoid it. No different than the messages spoken by Simmons, Wendler, Starr, and hundreds of others. People just like to pick on Stuart; he's an easy target.

My mistake, I found the quote and you are absolutely correct.

Edit: McRobert has done 400 deadlift for 20 reps which is extremely impressive.

[JordanK91]

can u class over-training as the tiredness and soreness from a lack of rest days?

[Off Road]

Originally Posted by JordanK91

can u class over-training as the tiredness and soreness from a lack of rest days?

That's more like the "over-reaching" that BtB was talking about.

[BendtheBar]

Originally Posted by Kuytrider

*Incidentally, I recently read that McRobert thinks a 300 bench, 400 squat and 500 dead is almost the maximum limit for a 'hardgainer'.

Off Road commented on this, but McRobert actually stated those are reasonable goals.

The "Hardgainer" title aside, most of us are far more McRobert than we are Weider. McRobert was for simplicity, basic exercises, progression, etc. for the average Joe. I think for 99% of the lifting community, meaning guys who have no interest in reaching advanced bodybuilding or powerlifting stages, McRobert provides very reasonable solutions.

I think we all know that the average forum member hasn't made any real progress, isn't focused on progression, isn't focused on the big lifts, etc. Most of my programs for men this level are pretty much in the same flavor as McRobert.

Things are changing rapidly on the Internet, but for the most part the average Joe still thinks a 5 day split with 82 exercises per day is the way to go.

[Off Road]

McRobert takes a beating because of the way he presented his information. Too many people took the message too far. People rant and rave about how terrible Hardgainer is with all it's talk of overtraining and genetics, but then they swear that Wendler's 5/3/1 is awesome; Really, where's the difference? Except for 12 week cycles compared to 4 week cycles, there really is NO difference between the two systems.

90% of the information being passed along, and the routines being recommended [on this forum] could be taken directly from Brawn. And I would never utter McRobert's name in the same sentence as Mentzer's; They are light-years apart.

Sorry for getting on a soap box, I'm just a big fan of McRobert and I get my panties in a bunch when I see people running him down without any validity to their arguements.

[JacktheThriller]

I have read McRoberts Brawn several times from front to back. It is a good read. The point is that everyone can benefit from a ultra abbreviated routine. The moniker on Hardgainer is overused but the advice is solid for all lifters. After all if shitty genetics can gain, good can make leaps and bounds. Teaches valuable lessons about reducing intensity when gains halt.

[BendtheBar]

Originally Posted by Off Road

90% of the information being passed along, and the routines being recommended [on this forum] could be taken directly from Brawn.

You're exactly right.

I know little about McRobert's following, but his information is 20x more useful to the average Joe than a Flex magazine. Again, stressing average forum Joe, being the 99% who think we're nuts.

[BigJosh]

Very good discussion in here.
I will pipe in by saying that I am currently taking 2 weeks off from any movements that require my lower back to bare a load. The reason being that heavy front squats, back squats and RDLs one day and deadlifts, pendlay rows, and heavy shrugs another day, along with OHP on a completely other day has brought me to the point where my spinae erector is completely fatigued.
This isn't an injury, necessarily. And my performance on my deadlift as decreased significantly.
I would say, my lower back or spinae erector is either under recovered or over trained.

My point here is that overtraining does exist in one form or another.

However I agree with you guys when you say the term over training is often misused and over used in the forums.

[Kuytrider]

Originally Posted by Off Road

McRobert takes a beating because of the way he presented his information. Too many people took the message too far. People rant and rave about how terrible Hardgainer is with all it's talk of overtraining and genetics, but then they swear that Wendler's 5/3/1 is awesome; Really, where's the difference? Except for 12 week cycles compared to 4 week cycles, there really is NO difference between the two systems.

90% of the information being passed along, and the routines being recommended [on this forum] could be taken directly from Brawn. And I would never utter McRobert's name in the same sentence as Mentzer's; They are light-years apart.

Sorry for getting on a soap box, I'm just a big fan of McRobert and I get my panties in a bunch when I see people running him down without any validity to their arguements.

No Problem OR. I misread a quote attributed to Stuart. I took some time last night to (fully) read some interviews with him and he does speak sense. Most gym rats who see little progress could do a helluva lot worse (and probably not much better) than listen to his advice. And the day I reach his initial 300-400-500 goal will be a celebratory one

Originally Posted by BigJosh

Very good discussion in here.
I will pipe in by saying that I am currently taking 2 weeks off from any movements that require my lower back to bare a load. The reason being that heavy front squats, back squats and RDLs one day and deadlifts, pendlay rows, and heavy shrugs another day, along with OHP on a completely other day has brought me to the point where my spinae erector is completely fatigued.
This isn't an injury, necessarily. And my performance on my deadlift as decreased significantly.
I would say, my lower back or spinae erector is either under recovered or over trained.

My point here is that overtraining does exist in one form or another.

However I agree with you guys when you say the term over training is often misused and over used in the forums.

That's a good plan Josh. What's 2 weeks in the course of a long time lifting? Hopefully it will help you kick arse in the near and distant future.