WOW

[Abaddon]

I'd like to think that same sex parents make for no more or less competent parents than a traditional couple.

This is perhaps an example of a gay couple being overly protective of their child and his/her development for the right reasons, but going about it in the wrong way.

No doubt they were both persecuted as children and forced to adopt gender roles that they themselves did not feel they fit in to.

In Freudian terms, I believe it's called narcissistic valuation; seeing your kids as extensions of yourself. Straight couples do it all the time.

[big_swede]

And I'm all for everyone being happier. We have far too many miserable people on the planet.

Damn right.


my opinion..

What people do are their decision, not mine and who am i to judge. That is when people are grown up, dont mess with the kids. Giving hormone blockers to an 11 year old? Thats just FU child abuse. If he wants to do it, let him wait until he is 18 or 21 and make the decision for himself.

[Shadowschmadow]

My original point that I deleted was simple...

Its one of those "if you want to be ____ that's cool and all, but don't let it effect ____". This is comparable to vegan parents who force their children to adopt their own eating habits, and the children end up malnourished. Let them think for themselves. (to an extent of course; they are children )

I'd be willing to bet that these women probably have a strong disliking for men. Meaning they probably gave the child some kind of reason to dislike men, regardless of whether it was or was not intentional. Maybe the child over-hears their conversations and opinions about men in general - I don't know, and I don't care.

All children in the early stages are spitting images of their parents and their parents ideals, whether we realize this or not.

[Shadowschmadow]

I think that's what I was trying to say earlier. I don't know... I know what I'm thinking, but I'm having a difficult time trying to depict those thoughts properly with words.

[MC]

Originally Posted by Shadow

My original point that I deleted was simple...

Its one of those "if you want to be ____ that's cool and all, but don't let it effect ____". This is comparable to vegan parents who force their children to adopt their own eating habits, and the children end up malnourished. Let them think for themselves. (to an extent of course; they are children )

"Want to be" implies choice in orientation and I can't agree with that. This story is being overblown because the parents are gay women. There was a similar story years ago about a straight couple with two sons, one of whom preferred tiaras and dolls and all that. He told everyone he felt like a girl trapped in a boy's body. They were allowing both to play with and like whatever they liked. Abbadon's point is very noted here.

Originally Posted by Shadow

I'd be willing to bet that these women probably have a strong disliking for men. Meaning they probably gave the child some kind of reason to dislike men, regardless of whether it was or was not intentional. Maybe the child over-hears their conversations and opinions about men in general - I don't know, and I don't care.

This is a hugely stereotypical view of gay women as "man haters." which I have never found to be true. I have worked with and am friends with several lesbian couples and they all, to a woman, enjoy time with men. Hell, they watch sports, guzzle beer/wine/shots, cheer for football teams and still find time to be the girls that they are.

Originally Posted by Shadow

All children in the early stages are spitting images of their parents and their parents ideals, whether we realize this or not.

So, am I to take that you believe in nurture over nature? Again, I don't know what it's like to feel as if you are born in the wrong body so to speak (and I am not saying that I agree with hormone therapy for a child), but you are making a lot of assumptions and judgments that may or may not be true.

Maybe, just maybe, transgenderism exists. Maybe, just maybe, some people are born feeling out of place in their own bodies in terms of gender identity. I can and do believe that more than I buy the choice argument. Know why? Because I've never met a heterosexual person who can explain when they "chose" to like the opposite sex when the concept of choice is reflected back on them.

We are still (as a society) uncovering the the exact ways that sexual and gender identity form.

[Shadowschmadow]

I'm not going to quote and pick my arguments here or there, because I honestly don't care about this topic enough to argue anything, but let me ask you this...

Does your daughter not seemed to be even slightly influenced or bias by things you do or say? Say something simple, like sports teams or whatever...

[MC]

Originally Posted by Shadow

I'm not going to quote and pick my arguments here or there, because I honestly don't care about this topic enough to argue anything, but let me ask you this...

Does your daughter not seemed to be even slightly influenced or bias by things you do or say? Say something simple, like sports teams or whatever...

I am sure some of her tastes are influenced by what I say and do and am not disputing that. I don't think, however, that her own belief that she is, in fact, a female or her own orientation (whatever that turns out to be) is malleable by what I do or say. Her own acceptance of herself and others? Now, I think I have a large influence on that.

Does that makes sense?

[Abaddon]

Originally Posted by *MC*

I am sure some of her tastes are influenced by what I say and do and am not disputing that. I don't think, however, that her own belief that she is, in fact, a female or her own orientation (whatever that turns out to be) is malleable by what I do or say. Her own acceptance of herself and others? Now, I think I have a large influence on that.

Does that makes sense?

Yes.

The nature vs nurture argument is put soundly to rest every time you look at the cold statistics on the % of openly homosexual children a couple is likely to produce.

It's completely dependent on the size of the family, and has nothing to do with the parent's beliefs and values. The greater the number of offspring a couple has, the more likely one or more of them will be born gay.

[Shadowschmadow]

Originally Posted by *MC*

I am sure some of her tastes are influenced by what I say and do and am not disputing that. I don't think, however, that her own belief that she is, in fact, a female or her own orientation (whatever that turns out to be) is malleable by what I do or say. Her own acceptance of herself and others? Now, I think I have a large influence on that.

Does that makes sense?

It does make sense. And I'm not saying that just because you press you homosexual views and practices on your children that they will become homosexual themselves. But I'm saying that the minds of the young are highly influenced by there surroundings, especially domestic - some more so than others.