Obama: "80% of Americans Want High Taxes"

[MC]

Originally Posted by BendtheBar

My mother makes $9 an hour, paid off her home, but the state keeps raising her taxes.

Her personal property taxes keep going up and up, and sooner or later will force her out of her home.

Politics aside, I want this to end.

I do not want higher taxes. I don't care what they do - state, federal, local. Cuts need to be made. It's about time we start rewarding people in this country for getting off their asses and doing the right thing.

Every other car at Walmart has a disability sticker. Roll on, free money train...

I hear you.

But, the reason taxes go up on people like your mother and you and I is because corporations and the very rich don't pay proportionate taxes. For local and state jurisdictions, raising something like property taxes or an alcohol tax is an easy/quick fix in the wake of existing tax loopholes.

Are the property taxes there rising based on rate increases or home value increases? Mine go up and down with the housing market, albeit at a 2 year delay.

If they cut medicare or health programs, those with those programs will pay more for prescriptions, etc, and those with private insurance will pay more as a result as more and more people go under-insured or without insurance.

I agree that spending cuts need to be made (carefully), and I also think that new revenue needs to be generated.

[BendtheBar]

Originally Posted by *MC*

Are the property taxes there rising based on rate increases or home value increases? Mine go up and down with the housing market, albeit at a 2 year delay.

Not in Wisconsin. Wisconsin is tax hell. They raise the personal property tax rates because they believe them to be an endless well. I believe we rank 8th nationwide for personal property tax rates.

My mother lives in what will soon be the area of the city that no one wants to live in. People are fleeing like mad and houses are being purchased by slum lords. Her house is worth $60k.

In Wisconsin lower middle class and middle class folks like her are being forced to eat more of the tax burden, while those milking the system move in next door using the cash from some subsidy or entitlement program.

[MC]

Originally Posted by BendtheBar

Not in Wisconsin. Wisconsin is tax hell. They raise the personal property tax rates because they believe them to be an endless well, primarily made up of "wealthier" citizens.

My mother lives in what will soon be the area of the city that no one wants to live in. People are fleeing like mad and houses are being purchased by slum lords. Her house is worth $60k.

In Wisconsin lower middle class and middle class folks like her are being forced to eat more of the tax burden, while those milking the system move in next door using the cash from some subsidy or entitlement program.

Gotcha. I am not a fan of the rampant abuse of entitlement programs. I hate when I see that.

They recently added a "Bottle/Beverage" tax and raised the taxes on alcohol sales to 9%.

[BendtheBar]

I do agree with you MC...big business gets away with too much.

I don't want my statements to imply there aren't folks on welfare that deserve it. There certainly are. Wisconsin is very much out of control though.

I think middle Americans are being hit from both sides, and we need aggressive solutions.

[MC]

Originally Posted by BendtheBar

I do agree with you MC...big business gets away with too much.

I don't want my statements to imply there aren't folks on welfare that deserve it. There certainly are. Wisconsin is very much out of control though.

I think middle Americans are being hit from both sides, and we need aggressive solutions.

Agreed. I believe in helping those in true need. I believe in taking care of the elderly and disabled. I think there is far too much fraud and abuse of programs that aim to help people like welfare.

I also totally agree that those of us in the middle class get hit from both sides, but I fear that, if all we do is cut, some very important programs will suffer. Here I am thinking of education, free health clinics, and the like.

People have been attacking Planned Parenthood, for example, based on abortion beliefs. PP does so much more than that. They provide education and information on STDs and health to people, not to mention offering free condoms to any adult in efforts to prevent the spread of diseases.

I hate that much needed societal programs like these get caught up in some faux-moral debate grounded in people's religious beliefs. I shiver when we make legislative and budgetary decisions based on that. Faith isn't grounded in logic; its grounded in emotion and important decisions should be made through as non-emotional a lens as possible.

[bruteforce]

What I've always hated the most was the higher tax rate I pay on overtime I work. If I'm working my ass off, why do I have to pay extra while my downstairs neighbor lives as well as I do and doesn't work?

What I would like to see is all the crap cut out and some common sense applied. Enough of fat people who dont want to walk getting their immobility scooters from my paycheck. Its harder for the people I know who actually are disabled to get those than it is for the rest of the people i see riding around on them.

No problem with some social programs to help those who truly can't help themselves. But I did my time, worked myself sick, got myself healthy, and want to spend my hard earned money on myself and my family, not some politicians ideals, be it socialism, wars, or bridges to nowhere. If it really needs done, fine. Otherwise, lets cut it out and let the small businesses have a breath and grow so we can get some damn jobs here.

[Aurik]

The whole solution of "We can't make ends meet. We need to take more money from the American people" pisses me off to no end. If I couldn't make MY ends meet on my paycheck, I'd have to reduce my expenses. What Obama doesn't seem to say is that the government is currently spending at a 1.4 TRILLION dollar deficit. That is equivalent to the net worth of every millionaire in this country. There is no way you can generate that kind of additional income by raising taxes, at least not without further destroying the economy.

The government NEEDS to learn to spend within its means, and the problem is only going to get worse. In 2011, the 4 highest line items in the federal budget are:

Social Security ~20%
Defense ~19%
Medicare ~11%
Medicaid ~10%

The next highest line item is the interest on the national debt at 7%, and everything else is considerably less than that. The government needs to figure out where to cut 1.4 TRILLION dollars at some point.

The thing that pisses me off the most is that we've known that Social Security was broken for decades. Hell, my parents told me it was broken when I got my first job and told me I would have to rely on my own personal retirement savings when I decided to retire -- and this was back in 1994. 17 years later, no politician has had the balls to do anything about it because they're afraid of losing votes, and now Social Security is at the point where it's having to cash in all those "IOU's" the government wrote over the past 40 years, and if nothing is done to reduce the outlay of Social Security in the nest 5 to 10 years, all of those IOU's will be gone.

I understand that there are a lot of people out there who depend on Social Security and Medicare and Medicaid. I am paying in my 7% every year, not expecting to ever get a dime back of it when I retire. The politicians need to dig down and decide whether or not they will make the choices that will leave a country that's not in economic shambles to their children.

[Aurik]

I actually mentioned this to my wife, and had an epiphany in the process. Obama said that "80% of people supported increased taxes."

I wonder how the American people would react if the question were re-worded "Would you be willing to pay higher taxes to pay down the national debt?" In everyone's mind, the word "higher taxes" when said by Obama is immediately followed by "on someone else".

[mab54]

Originally Posted by *MC*

People have been attacking Planned Parenthood, for example, based on abortion beliefs. PP does so much more than that. They provide education and information on STDs and health to people, not to mention offering free condoms to any adult in efforts to prevent the spread of diseases.

I couldn't agree with you more, does anyone else remember when the congressman said that the tax money given to PP was used for abortion fund. He also said that like 98% of PP funding goes to abortions.

When in reality none of the tax dollars go to abortions, and less then 2% of there funding is for abortions.

On one last note the 80% of americans wanting a tax increase is only on the top 2% wage earners. Americans do not(according to most polls) want tax increase on all tax brackets just the top ones.

[Pull14]

Originally Posted by Aurik

I actually mentioned this to my wife, and had an epiphany in the process. Obama said that "80% of people supported increased taxes."

I wonder how the American people would react if the question were re-worded "Would you be willing to pay higher taxes to pay down the national debt?" In everyone's mind, the word "higher taxes" when said by Obama is immediately followed by "on someone else".

Speaking of re-wording, lets take a look at the presidents wording... "80% of the American people support revenues and cuts." It don't take a rocket scientist to figure out what revenues implies... but than again many people voted for the man because he promised "hope & change." O will do some lingual gymnastics to avoid using the words "higher" and "taxes" unless he referring to the "millionaires and billionaires" or cutting the taxes of the "hard working America."

He also had to do quite a bit of stretching to make it appear that the public is on his side - 80% is far from accurate.

Politics aside, the solution doesn't lie with some cuts and raising taxes for the rich. Taking 100% of the wealth from America's richest is far from enough. The government and its programs needs massive reforms.

Look at government agencies and how their acquire funding. A) they have demonstrate their importance (this is fine, for the most part). B) They spend all of their current funding otherwise funding for the next FY is reduced. To make this possible why spend $100 on a toilet seat, paper,etc. when you can spent $500.

As you said, Aurik, SS and other programs are broke. A system put in place to help the elderly pay the bills for the last few years of their life has turned into check after check for 10, 20, 30 years. The whole thing is a ponzi scheme running on borrowed money and IOUs.

The problem just doesn't lie with the big programs... it lies in every facet of our government.