Bin Laden is Dead

[thumpinos]

Personally I don't care what the world thinks. I want my children to know that if someone tries to hurt them, we will stand against them and they will be safe.

We have not always been perfect as a nation, but we will always stand against those that try to harm the innocent. Some of them need to die.

[MC]

Originally Posted by thumpinos

Personally I don't care what the world thinks. I want my children to know that if someone tries to hurt them, we will stand against them and they will be safe.

And I want my children to know that same. No disagreement there.

Not caring what anyone thinks of us, however, is one of the reasons people are constantly attacking us. It's not at all about this "they are jealous of our luxuries." That's propaganda spin.

If you ever read foreign news and compare similar stories told here, Britain and a few other places, you will see and feel a very different take on our actions.

Love my country. No doubt. But I have to confess that we do sometimes give the appearance of the planet's Jehova's Witnesses. By that I mean, always knocking on someone else's door, in their yards, and pushing our beliefs onto them because we always think our way is right and only way. In that scenario, it is usually only a matter of time before a sentiment of us being unwelcome arises.

Do you honestly feel safer today with him dead? I don't. And I would feel less safe were I out the country at the moment. I feel the same amount of "safeness" as I felt this time last week. Nothing has fundamentally changed. At least not for me.

[Tannhauser]

Originally Posted by thumpinos

We have not always been perfect as a nation, but we will always stand against those that try to harm the innocent.

Don't take this as USA bashing, because it isn't, but that statement's just not true. The USA has a long history of targeting anyone who opposes US interests, innocent or not. The UK is no better.

If you want just one example, look at US support of Indonesia's Suharto - human rights abuses and massacres over a sustained period that the US government were well aware of:

Associated Press report

[BendtheBar]

DRUDGE: WHITE HOUSE RELEASES BIN LADEN DEATH PHOTO<BR><BR>

WHITE HOUSE TO RELEASE BIN LADEN DEATH PHOTO
Tue May 03 2011 10:22:50 ET

President Obama decided Tuesday morning to release at least one photo showing Osama Bin Laden's death, a top source claims.

The images, being described as 'graphic', are bound to stir emotions in the east and the west, and will likely become the most viewed photographs in modern history.

One image shows a bullet wound to his head above his left eye.

Will it remove all doubt about the death?

The exact timing on the release is being debated.

Developing...

[BendtheBar]

Originally Posted by Tannhauser

Don't take this as USA bashing, because it isn't, but that statement's just not true. The USA has a long history of targeting anyone who opposes US interests, innocent or not. The UK is no better.

The actions of the government are different than the mindset and spirit of the people.

We, as a people, believe in truth, justice and freedom. Most of us would help anyone, anywhere at any time if they were being infringed upon, or having their freedoms violated.

My friends and neighbors would. As would I. And we don't do so because we think we are better or superior.

We are a country of simple people. And most of us want only the best for everyone. And we don't particularly care for our government either, if that matters.

My father served faithfully in Vietnam. He was a good man in a bad situation. It nearly destroyed him. My great grandfather served faithfully in World War 2. He served because he wanted to help. I served my country because I believe in the spirit of my country, and the spirit of the people that I call friends and neighbors.

We wish all men, women and children across this globe to experience the freedoms we have.

Thumpinos' statement is true. We (as a people) will always stand against those that try to harm the innocent. This spirit is in our blood. It is who we are.

[MMA Max]

Originally Posted by Tannhauser

Don't take this as USA bashing, because it isn't, but that statement's just not true. The USA has a long history of targeting anyone who opposes US interests, innocent or not. The UK is no better.

If you want just one example, look at US support of Indonesia's Suharto - human rights abuses and massacres over a sustained period that the US government were well aware of:

Associated Press report

True, The UK is no better. They forced a Country ( China) into buying opium because doping up a nation into doing what they wanted was in the UK's best interest. lol same as helping to rape the congo, Force Colonies in India and around the known globe, Oh and finally picking up where the Spainish left of and pushing forth the great dying. Because, ya know..Native americans shared the UK's best interest.

But I am not hating, I am all for the strong and the beaten. It's how the world works.

But, I for one am glad Osama is dead as shit. I went in the Military and spent 10 years with this ****er, I went around the globe to some shit holes because of this **** and now he is dead..Good. Now we just need to fix our over seas policies..Ron Paul man, Ron Paul..2012 pull out of everywhere and let the world destroy itself. lol

[Tannhauser]

Originally Posted by BendtheBar

The actions of the government are different than the mindset and spirit of the people.

We, as a people, believe in truth, justice and freedom. Most of us would help anyone, anywhere at any time if they were being infringed upon, or having their freedoms violated.

My friends and neighbors would. As would I. And we don't do so because we think we are better or superior.

We are a country of simple people. And most of us want only the best for everyone. And we don't particularly care for our government either, if that matters.

My father served faithfully in Vietnam. He was a good man in a bad situation. It nearly destroyed him. My great grandfather served faithfully in World War 2. He served because he wanted to help. I served my country because I believe in the spirit of my country, and the spirit of the people that I call friends and neighbors.

We wish all men, women and children across this globe to experience the freedoms we have.

Thumpinos' statement is true. We (as a people) will always stand against those that try to harm the innocent. This spirit is in our blood. It is who we are.

I wouldn't dispute anything that you say - after all, you live there and I don't. And I've met a lot of warm-hearted and generous people in my own travels in the US.

Unfortunately, most people on the receiving end of US foreign policy are quite naturally going to equate that with the spirit of the American people. They assume that the American people either hate them or just don't care. After all, if the American people elect their government, and that government goes onto support a corrupt regime in their country, or supports a guerilla organisation that commits atrocities, and so on, that seems a logical conclusion.

So the spirit that you speak of does not translate into the many people's reality.

I think, in a sense, the determination for the rest of the world to enjoy the freedoms seen in the US is part of the problem. There is this unshakeable belief that the American way is the best - this is seen at its worst in the conditions attached to IMF development, where local needs are completely overriden by a blind faith that laissez-faire economic systems must ALWAYS be the best.

Again, I'm not a USA basher. Few would argue with the USA's decisive intervention in Kosovo, and the world is indebted for entering WWII. But -if you will permit a critical observation - I do think a lot of Americans are not very interested in the complexities of other countries and are a bit complacent when it comes to what is done in their name worldwide. I think the treatment of Hugh Thompson Jr - who was defending justice - says a lot.

As Mr. Max says, the UK has done some ghastly things, so I'm by no means trying to say we're any better over here.

[MC]

I agree with your sense and feelings of country and patriotism. I have friends and family members currently in service and more that have served.

Originally Posted by BendtheBar

...We (as a people) will always stand against those that try to harm the innocent. This spirit is in our blood. It is who we are.

Except that we don't, BTB. We (as a nation) selectively intervene when it serves our purposes. We've watched tens of thousands die and done nothing while intervening where it didn't seem necessary (except for oil interests). I am not judging this. People do what works--from altruism to selfishness; people will do what rewards them in some way.

We are at a point where, for some in our country, to criticize military action (not talking about OBL, here) is being equated with a lack of patriotism. The founding fathers must roll over in their graves when they hear that. Nothing is more patriotic than questioning government and holding persons elected by the population accountable.

Sadly, the more I see and read, the fewer people I think we have in America who actual believe something they've given any real thought to. Most people seem to believe whatever the government or other "authoritative" organization instructs them to believe.

[BendtheBar]

BREAKING: President Obama will not release bin Laden photos – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs

[MC]

Good move, IMO. The ability of those photos to become an international flashpoint is way too high to risk it, just to "prove" something.