Please Read... Help needed

[Carl1174]

OK so I need to have advice on what the experienced members on here think about which routine i should do next.

First a bit about me. I am 36, have lifted on and off for about 3-4 years (more off than on for the first 2 years though). I have OK lifts, 110kg bp, 150kg squat, 65kg MP and a rubbish 145kg deadlift, but have never had those 'beginner gains' that everyone talks about size wise.

I have ran 5/3/1 before, and mainly bp splits before that. I have a couple ideas of what to do next and i am looking for strength and size. I have had a couple of ideas from RJ Perkins for a similar routine to what he does so upper heavy/lower heavy/chest and back/legs/shoulder and arms, but i would work out 4 times per week and rotate the exercises.

However i have been doing more of a full body approach at the minute and i am enjoying that, so i am debating whether to do a 'classic' full body, so Reeves or Park inspired.

My thoughts are 3 days a week full body will give me more rest and hopefully more growth (plus i could include some cardio on off days), but I have always been under the brain washed impression that splits would give the best gains (untill reading some of the posts on here especially from glwanabe) so i am in a bit of a quandery...

hope you can help with any ideas and/or suggestions

Carl.

[glwanabe]

Carl,

I'm going to suggest that you look at the Reeves Classic routine.

I'll get into a more detailed explanation later, as well as how you can peronalize a bit. To start off with though, you want to just run it as written, until your firmly established into the fullbody progrmming scheme.


http://muscleandbrawn.com/forums/bod...challenge.html

[MMA Max]

West side - standard or modified, i have never put on more muscle, strength, size and power with any other program. I worked other programs and when gasper on these forums turned me on to it i never went back to anything else, however, i always thought the chaos and pain approach was also something awesome.

Whatever you pick just make sure it`s gonna be fun

[BendtheBar]

Originally Posted by Carl1174

OK so I need to have advice on what the experienced members on here think about which routine i should do next.

First a bit about me. I am 36, have lifted on and off for about 3-4 years (more off than on for the first 2 years though). I have OK lifts, 110kg bp, 150kg squat, 65kg MP and a rubbish 145kg deadlift, but have never had those 'beginner gains' that everyone talks about size wise.

I have ran 5/3/1 before, and mainly bp splits before that. I have a couple ideas of what to do next and i am looking for strength and size. I have had a couple of ideas from RJ Perkins for a similar routine to what he does so upper heavy/lower heavy/chest and back/legs/shoulder and arms, but i would work out 4 times per week and rotate the exercises.

However i have been doing more of a full body approach at the minute and i am enjoying that, so i am debating whether to do a 'classic' full body, so Reeves or Park inspired.

My thoughts are 3 days a week full body will give me more rest and hopefully more growth (plus i could include some cardio on off days), but I have always been under the brain washed impression that splits would give the best gains (untill reading some of the posts on here especially from glwanabe) so i am in a bit of a quandery...

hope you can help with any ideas and/or suggestions

Carl.

Well I will say this...once you have been lifting for a while, fullbody routines can take a while to get used to - maybe several months. So if you do try a fullbody it could be very challenging during the first month.

If you feel you are enjoying it at the moment, it's worthy of consideration. If not, I would do an A/B split that is 4 days per week. You could alternate exercises a bit so that you only used an exercise once every 2 weeks if you'd like. You could also do an A/B and rotate it between 3 days, and flip-flop exercises.

First and foremost I would like to see you on a system that is "tunnel vision" focused on progression. Not saying you aren't now, or haven't been before, but as of right now I want to see you maximize all efforts in the gym with progression.

A full steam fullbody can take up to 75 minutes or longer in the gym. depending on an individual and warmup needs. An A/B we could whittle down a git to probably 60 minutes max.

So I guess my questions for you are:

1) Do you prefer 60 minutes and done, or is going 75 minutes not an issue?
2) Do you mind having a possible month or two "break in" period while trying fullbody where they feel a little fatiguing? (This might not happen as much to you as it does for some)

My suggestion, if you're still on the fence, is to do an A/B split over 3 days...a hybrid. Workouts "could" look something like:

Workout A
Squats
Bench Press
Barbell Rows
...

Workout B
Deadlift
Dips
Pullups
...

Workout A2
Squats
Incline Bench Press or DB Bench Press
Dumbbell Rows
...

Workout B2
SLDL
Close Grip Bench Press
Rack Chins or Power Cleans
...

Not complete workouts, of course. Merely trying to illustrate variation possibilities.

With these workouts, whichever you choose, I want to see you pushing on every set for as many reps as possible. Stop each set short of failure, or when you feel like you may fail on the next rep. No wasted sets. Rep range won't matter much, but for sake of discussion we can work somewhere between 5-12 on most lifts.

Lastly, I want to say that:

A) You have very respectable lifts. You can squat and deadlift 300 pounds, and bench 200+. These are very good, and no one gets to this level without hard work.
B) You may have slowly "nibbled" away your beginner gains, meaning you may have added a pound or two here or there instead of a whopping 15 pounds your first year, etc.

Do you know your approximate height, weight and BF% at your peak muscularity?

[Carl1174]

Thanks for the responces guys, very helpfull.

I really like the fullbody (I do normally feel like pucking afterwards), but recovery doesnt seem too much of a problem once i am home, taken my PWO shake and showerd I am fine... hungry, but fine.

But again the A/B/A split of 4 day would probably be fine too.

I do like to be in and out within a bout an hour to an hour and 10 mins though, do to when i train and getting home etc...

As far as Westside goes i have looked at it before and like the principle, but I dont have chains/bands or anything like that and normally work without a spotter. I have also been led to believe that it is predomintly a strength workout and I do want to work on the Aesthetics as well.

As far as height, weight etc goes. i have always seemed unusually heavy lol.

I think at my best (which was about 3 months ago, before xmas and the bloat came along) I was;

All measurements are unflexed (except Bi's )

Height: 5'6.5" (166cm)
Weight: 180.5lbs (82kg)
Waist: 34"
Biceps: 15.75"
Chest: 41.5"
Forearm: 12.5"
Neck: 16"
Thigh: 23.25"
Calf: 15.75"

Dont know if you need that info lol but there it is...

Carl.

[MMA Max]

.

[BendtheBar]

Originally Posted by Carl1174

Height: 5'6.5" (166cm)
Weight: 180.5lbs (82kg)

Carl.

Do you know about what your bodyfat was at that time? I hate to pick your brain but I am trying to get an idea where you are as far as muscle gains...

Regarding workouts...we could easily set you up (make suggestions) with a 60 minute 3-day per week fullbody.

I say try a fullbody for 3 months. You have little to lose. Either straight fullbody or AB.

[MMA Max]

West side has many variations and mods. You dont need bands and chains to do a west side program.

i work a simple west side - dynamic bench, dymanic squat, max effort bench, dynamic or speed deads.

i have also seen west side programs with olympic lifts in and the max press days being oh presses.

west side is about getting mo stronger but with lifting heavy ass weight and getting strong muscle comes with it.

i have gained more mass and muscle on west side then anything else.

[MMA Max]

.

[Carl1174]

Originally Posted by BendtheBar

Do you know about what your bodyfat was at that time? I hate to pick your brain but I am trying to get an idea where you are as far as muscle gains...

Regarding workouts...we could easily set you up (make suggestions) with a 60 minute 3-day per week fullbody.

I say try a fullbody for 3 months. You have little to lose. Either straight fullbody or AB.

I think the calculator had me at about 15%, but dont know how acurate that is... Trouble with the calulators is I have it all around the mid section, nothing really on limbs at all...

Carl.