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-   -   Raw Lifting for Equipped Lifters (http://www.muscleandbrawn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8900)

Fazc 02-06-2012 01:19 PM

Raw Lifting for Equipped Lifters
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LtL (Post 214252)
Interesting stat Fazc. Now I'm moving to equipped lifting and especially with my recent shoulder mishap, I am giving serious consideration to abandoning heavy raw work entirely and maybe just keeping speed work raw. Thoughts?

I hope Ltl doesn't mind me quoting him here. It's something I have thought a lot about, ultimately my decision on the matter has been made for me (for now) but it is perhaps something to debate for others. I know competitors who do this both ways.

So, for the equipped lifter:

1) Is raw lifting still a necessary part of their training. Building up an ever increasing level of raw base strength to translate to their equipped lifts?

2) Or should the lifters energies be directed at training in gear? Opting instead to train in gear and direct their training towards the needs of equipped competition?

Discuss. :)

BendtheBar 02-06-2012 03:25 PM

I am just starting my crossover, but I will share my 2 cents anyway.

For me it's an issue of risk/reward. I am a beaten old horse and when I bench press raw I pick up strains that can linger for months. This will impact confidence, eccentric speed, etc. The strains from my first meet lasted almost 8 weeks.

For someone like me that takes a beating from raw benching I see very little value in training with intensity raw. But I would like to see what equipped lifters who don't take a beating raw have to say.

LtL 02-06-2012 03:31 PM

My thoughts are as follows: in an ideal world where I am still young and not broken, I would train completely raw every time I wasn't in gear. There are elements of technique of course but more raw strength normally equates to more geared strength. Unfortunately this isn't an ideal world and raw work is leaving me with tweaks and strains on a regular basis. To combat this I will be using minimal gear on dynamic effort days (suit bottoms and knee sleeves for lower and slingshot and possibly elbow sleeves on upper). It's like Steve said: risk vs reward. I want to lift as much as I can but I can't do that if I'm hurt.

LtL

Mr.Silverback 02-06-2012 03:34 PM

While have only trained in my suit, I would like to give my thoughts on this topic and that being RAW lifting has it's place for a geared lifter. Gear does a great job at masking weaknesses that I feel RAW lifting helps with. I would cycle it out just to prevent from having a deficiency that you were unaware of.

Train in gear as a meet nears, but train RAW as your body allows you to. No there are different tools to help with RAW work.

Fazc 02-06-2012 07:27 PM

Thanks for your thoughts guys,

Quote:

Originally Posted by BendtheBar (Post 214462)
For me it's an issue of risk/reward. I am a beaten old horse and when I bench press raw I pick up strains that can linger for months.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LtL (Post 214465)
Unfortunately this isn't an ideal world and raw work is leaving me with tweaks and strains on a regular basis. To combat this I will be using minimal gear on dynamic effort days (suit bottoms and knee sleeves for lower and slingshot and possibly elbow sleeves on upper). It's like Steve said: risk vs reward. I want to lift as much as I can but I can't do that if I'm hurt.

My thoughts exactly on both counts, the gear has allowed me to get back on the platform. If I hadn't invested in it, I can almost guarantee I wouldn't have been back on as any *intense* raw work would have been a no-go.

These two comments on the other hand, are what concern me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Silverback (Post 214466)
Gear does a great job at masking weaknesses that I feel RAW lifting helps with. I would cycle it out just to prevent from having a deficiency that you were unaware of.

1) Am I inviting more injury down the line if I'm not supporting my ever increasing top end strength with raw work? Sure I feel better now, but when I begin to push really heavy weights Squats/Deads of 300kg and Benches of over 200kg, will I then see different types of injury from not having the right raw base to support those lifts?

Quote:

Originally Posted by LtL (Post 214465)
There are elements of technique of course but more raw strength normally equates to more geared strength.

2) I've been in gear for a relatively short period of time. Is what I'm seeing merely the carryover from my raw strength and if so, how much more will I get if my raw strength stagnates?

Hmmm :confused:

More comments are welcome, don't feel like you need any huge background with gear to contribute :)

Kuytrider 02-07-2012 01:27 AM

I'm about 300kg short of justifying gear use but I would tend to agree with SB. If someone like me, who is nowhere near strong enough to justify gear use, tried to use it, I'd guarantee that eventually problems would arise because of my lack of raw strength and I don't see it being any different for someone much stronger like you.
I understand that gear helps you get back in the game but at the same time, common sense if nothing else suggests that gear can only take you so far before weaknesses from lack of raw strength manifest themselves. Naturally, training with gear should take precedence but raw work can't be totally discarded. You can take this with a pinch of salt from a powerlifting noob :)

Fazc 02-07-2012 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuytrider (Post 214618)
Naturally, training with gear should take precedence but raw work can't be totally discarded. You can take this with a pinch of salt from a powerlifting noob :)

Thanks Kuyt, this sentiment is pretty much what caused me to start thinking about this more. I've taken stock and I'm considerably healthier than I was 7 months ago, my shoulders are fine, knees are feeling better etc. Perhaps it's time, if I treat the raw lifts as assistance rather than the focus itself it may well be safer.

ehubbard 02-07-2012 11:39 AM

If I use briefs too much my glutes get weak, and my dl and sq suffer. Use a shirt too much and I just feel beat up all the time. Find balance specific to your goals, injuries, weaknesses, etc.

Fazc 02-07-2012 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ehubbard (Post 214719)
If I use briefs too much my glutes get weak, and my dl and sq suffer. Use a shirt too much and I just feel beat up all the time. Find balance specific to your goals, injuries, weaknesses, etc.

Thanks Ehubbard, the last thing you said about finding the balance struck me. I'm feeling much, much better now after lifting in the gear for a while. Injuries are clearing up etc. So perhaps re-introducing some moderate raw work now may be a good option. If I introduce it as assistance rather than the main focus my sets/reps will reflect that and perhaps I'll avoid some of the aches and pains I used to get when it was my focus and avoid potentially bigger problems of imbalances that may arise from a poor raw base.

Thanks.

Shadowschmadow 02-07-2012 12:50 PM

Good thread.


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