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Old 02-07-2012, 12:53 PM   #11
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Thanks Kuyt, this sentiment is pretty much what caused me to start thinking about this more. I've taken stock and I'm considerably healthier than I was 7 months ago, my shoulders are fine, knees are feeling better etc. Perhaps it's time, if I treat the raw lifts as assistance rather than the focus itself it may well be safer.
I think you mentioned doing 6 triples. I'd say 80% of your raw 1RM would be a good starting point as it would keep you honest while still preserving yourself for the heavy geared stuff. Or would you say that's a tad high?
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Old 02-07-2012, 01:31 PM   #12
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Good thread.
Glad you popped in buddy, your thoughts? I can't recall, did you ever use gear?

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I think you mentioned doing 6 triples. I'd say 80% of your raw 1RM would be a good starting point as it would keep you honest while still preserving yourself for the heavy geared stuff. Or would you say that's a tad high?
I think for me that probably would be a bit high, you'd be more inured toward using 80% on a regular basis than I would. I was thinking more along the lines of 60-70, especially with all the rest of the stuff I'll be doing.
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Old 02-07-2012, 01:52 PM   #13
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Glad you popped in buddy, your thoughts? I can't recall, did you ever use gear?
Nope, I've always lifted raw, and I've never even considered ever using gear - I'm just in the thread to learn because I like to expand my knowledge, even things that aren't applicable for me. And my deadlift and squat aren't even remotely impressive or mastered enough to require assistance. On top of that, I don't even use the belt that I bought myself years ago.

However, from what I do understand about gear, I think it would leave the oppurtunity open for possible underdevelopment in some areas. And because of this, I almost would consider gear like supplements - use it for its convenience, but don't base everything you do around it and try to make it your solution. (Just an opinion)

I would shoot this question to the owners of SSPT and see what their thoughts are. Supreme Sports Performance & Training I've emailed them questions in the past and they're always happy to answer them. I've also trained at this gym with these guys, and their gym is nothing more than a group of absolute beasts. They are extremely knowledgeable in all aspects of lifting and I trust their advice/opinions. Their credentials are on that site, for those who care.
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Old 02-07-2012, 01:57 PM   #14
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However, from what I do understand about gear, I think it would leave the oppurtunity open for possible underdevelopment in some areas. And because of this, I almost would consider gear like supplements - use it for its convenience, but don't base everything you do around it and try to make it your solution. (Just an opinion)
Yes! I agree. The reason I got to thinking about this was a recent question Ltl posed. I gave the answer which applied to me 6 months ago 'I use gear, cos im beat up'. But then I realised I'm not beat up any longer. Actually I feel fine! So without that hang up, I may now be able to concentrate on the future. Basing everything I do on either suits/shirts/slingshots/briefs may have a detrimental effect on my future development. Or worse, am I setting myself up for more and potentially worse injuries?

Can I really expect to be Squatting 300kg when my raw squat isn't much over 220kg? I'm not sure, perhaps I can or perhaps not.

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I would shoot this question to the owners of SSPT and see what there thoughts are. Supreme Sports Performance & Training I've emailed them questions in the past and they're always happy to answer them. I've also trained at this gym with these guys, and their gym is nothing more than a group of absolute beasts. They are extremely knowledgeable in all aspects of lifting and I trust their advice/opinions.
That's awesome man, much appreciated!
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Old 02-07-2012, 02:09 PM   #15
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That's awesome man, much appreciated!
Yeah, that's the gym I would train at if it were convenient to me. I just use their personal email that they have up on the site, since they don't have a real "contact us" from what I recall.
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Old 02-07-2012, 02:47 PM   #16
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1) Am I inviting more injury down the line if I'm not supporting my ever increasing top end strength with raw work? Sure I feel better now, but when I begin to push really heavy weights Squats/Deads of 300kg and Benches of over 200kg, will I then see different types of injury from not having the right raw base to support those lifts?


Yes, in my humble opinion I believe that you will set yourself up for an injury (weak hips, glutes, etc) which is why I feel that even if you are a geared lifter you need to train RAW to bring up those problematic areas. Per my chat with Donnie Thompson and Steve, we bounced around this topic here recently for me being a RAW lifter training in gear. DT and BTB both agreed with the notion that it will strengthen me (CNS especially) thus allowing me to handle heavier loads RAW, but I still needed to remember to work my RAW training to not only be healthy in the long run, but to correct any imbalances. Fazc, I think the missing link between GEAR and RAW is really imbalances that arise...Anyone care to chime in on that thought please do!
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Old 02-07-2012, 02:50 PM   #17
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Yes, in my humble opinion I believe that you will set yourself up for an injury (weak hips, glutes, etc) which is why I feel that even if you are a geared lifter you need to train RAW to bring up those problematic areas. Per my chat with Donnie Thompson and Steve, we bounced around this topic here recently for me being a RAW lifter training in gear. DT and BTB both agreed with the notion that it will strengthen me (CNS especially) thus allowing me to handle heavier loads RAW, but I still needed to remember to work my RAW training to not only be healthy in the long run, but to correct any imbalances. Fazc, I think the missing link between GEAR and RAW is really imbalances that arise...Anyone care to chime in on that thought please do!
Just the kind of thing I need to hear. That's awesome Mr. SB thanks for your insight!
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Old 02-07-2012, 02:55 PM   #18
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Absolutely no probs man, thats what we are here for to sort through the bull and find the truth!
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Old 02-07-2012, 04:26 PM   #19
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Great topic. The whole using gear to overload your system will make you stronger without the gear didnt really work for me. I started competing a couple of years ago and started raw. Slowly I started doing single ply meets. Bench, push pulls, and one full meet. Once I got the groove of the shirt down, I never really had troubles touching so I spent about two months doing almost nothing but shirted boards. I would warmup to something like 315 raw and then put the shirt on. It resulted in a 40 pound bench pr (410 to 450). I had done a raw full meet before this cycle and had bench 365 in training and 355 at the meet. I figured since my shirt had gone up 50 pounds then my raw bench had increased. I ended up barely being able to bench 335 when I took the shirt off. So my shirt bench went up 50 pounds and my raw dropped at least 20 at the same time.

The whole experience soured me on gear so I trained raw for awhile and raised my bench to the 405-415 area. We put our shirts on one day just for fun and I ended up benching 525! For me, as long as you can tolerate it and you know how to use the shirt then I would get as strong as possible without the shirt. Then either use it occasionally in your training and maybe 5 weeks out stay in it. I cant really speak on geared squatting or pulling because I didnt do much of it.
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Old 02-07-2012, 04:35 PM   #20
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I had done a raw full meet before this cycle and had bench 365 in training and 355 at the meet. I figured since my shirt had gone up 50 pounds then my raw bench had increased. I ended up barely being able to bench 335 when I took the shirt off. So my shirt bench went up 50 pounds and my raw dropped at least 20 at the same time.
Pretty much what happened to me recently.

Thanks for that Mike, I'm hoping I can set it up so I do both shirted and raw bench in the week. No doubt once the April Meet is done I may focus my efforts more on the raw stuff, or at least Slingshot work.
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