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BendtheBar 10-29-2011 08:16 AM

Increasing Strength
 
Fazc and I have been tossing around ideas. Starting a thread to better sift through them

Fazc 10-29-2011 08:21 AM

Some thoughts from our initial conversation, in no particular order:

1) There will be a heavy amount of loading followed by a period of unloading/deloading. For this to work the loading periods need to be severe.

2) The lifts and their variations will form the bulk of the workload, rather than assistance exercises.

3) Rep schemes will typically involved multiple sets of low reps.

4) Exercises will be limited to 2 main exercises per day.

5) Partials from various heights will be the main form of assistance.

6) Squat/Dead variations are to be done 3 times a week usually on the same day. Benching to be done 2-3 times.

BendtheBar 10-29-2011 08:22 AM

One of my big challenges is the squat. While I seem to have found a personal key to adding deadlift strength, squats still challenge me. 375 on my back feels heavy, despite having put in probably a thousand reps with it on my back the last several years.

I spent nearly 8 months doing the Hepburn 405 x 8 sets x 2 reps approach but it didn't help me at all. I have also tried frequent good mornings (5 days a week), speed work and higher frequency (as of late).

Nothing I do seems to budge my squat 1RM. My max is up only 29 pounds ion 2 years. So I am looking at new options.

1) Partial box squats. Perhaps 6 x 3 reps high box squats with 90% 1RM.
2) Heavy singles @ 90%.
3) Chains. Allow for heavier weight on my back, but making the overall rep slightly less taxing than a regular 90% rep.

BendtheBar 10-29-2011 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fazc (Post 184625)

1) There will be a heavy amount of loading followed by a period of unloading/deloading. For this to work the loading periods need to be severe.

6) Squat/Dead variations are to be done 3 times a week usually on the same day. Benching to be done 2-3 times.

These 2 points in particular have been something I have put a lot of thought into recently.

I have been considering 1-2 heavy weeks followed by a lighter week of volume work at 50-60%.

For squats and deads I have mulled the following possibilities...

3 Days Per Week (Alternating workouts)

Heavy squat, moderate deadlift, squat assistance.
Heavy deadlift, moderate squat, deadlift assistance.

Or...

Heavy squat, moderate deadlift, deadlift assistance.
Heavy deadlift, moderate squat, squat assistance.

Fazc 10-29-2011 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BendtheBar (Post 184627)
3 Days Per Week (Alternating workouts)

Heavy squat, moderate deadlift, squat assistance.
Heavy deadlift, moderate squat, deadlift assistance.

Or...

Heavy squat, moderate deadlift, deadlift assistance.
Heavy deadlift, moderate squat, squat assistance.

How would you feel about this type of schedule, using your Squat variations:

Monday - Squat singles, Partial Deads

Wed - Chains, Deficit Deads

Fri - Deadlifts, Partial Box SQ

So in effect just 2 exercises per day, and 48 hours to recover between sessions. However this would involve both a Squat and Dead variation each day.

Fazc 10-29-2011 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BendtheBar (Post 184627)
I have been considering 1-2 heavy weeks followed by a lighter week of volume work at 50-60%.

I think that's a definite, and for the planned deload to be warranted the loading needs to be much more severe than what would normally be planned for. Hence the above post.

BendtheBar 10-29-2011 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fazc (Post 184628)
How would you feel about this type of schedule, using your Squat variations:

Monday - Squat singles, Partial Deads

Wed - Chains, Deficit Deads

Fri - Deadlifts, Partial Box SQ

So in effect just 2 exercises per day, and 48 hours to recover between sessions. However this would involve both a Squat and Dead variation each day.

I think it's solid. The partial box squats are easiest for me so pairing them with heavier deadlifts makes sense.

Deficit deads...believe it or not I did these for 2.5 years running without knowing it. My plates are from Wal-mart and 1.5 inches short of diameter. I am thinking about something LTL and I talked about...sumo deficits.

I received very strong carryover last year from sumos to conventional. I think perhaps if I did deficits it might make sense to perform sumos.

I also feel I need to add in weight situps and side bends. These take me 5 minutes max, but when I don't perform them my squat eccentrics suffer.

Also, I seem to benefit from power shrugs, so on partial day I might add in a couple sets at the end.

Now, rows...they have helped my lockout strength. I would probably keep them a part of my pressing days, with perhaps a press, row, press, scheme. Thoughts?

Off Road 10-29-2011 09:14 AM

Subbed. Can't wait to see what you guys hash out of this.

Fazc 10-29-2011 09:25 AM

I picked the Deadlift variations at random, we'd each pick the 3 we think would be most helpful to us. So in as much as I like deficit deads, (especially Sumo) it's not as useful for an equipped dead. Or perhaps I'm wrong, some longer range of motion stuff should still be included, equipped or not?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BendtheBar (Post 184636)
Also, I seem to benefit from power shrugs, so on partial day I might add in a couple sets at the end.

That could definitely work, the partials could be done over a range of different heights as long as the overall volume is maintained.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BendtheBar (Post 184636)
Now, rows...they have helped my lockout strength. I would probably keep them a part of my pressing days, with perhaps a press, row, press, scheme. Thoughts?

Yep, some upper back work needs to be in somewhere and if you only want to Press twice then that could work fine. But we don't want to risk diluting the routine with too many exercises or producing residual fatigue if you sandwich the Bent Row between two lower body days. How would you fit that in overall?

Here's what I'm thinking, again just thinking out loud, nothing definite yet:

Day 1:
CGBP (sling) - 6 triples

Day 2:
Squat (briefs/wraps) - 8 singles
Partial Sumo - 6 triples

Day 3: OFF or
Overhead Press - 6 triples
Chins - 6 x

Day 4:
Box Squat - 6 triples
Deficit Deadlifts - 6 triples

Day 5:

Bench Press (sling) - 8 singles
CG 3 Boards - 6 triples

Day 6:

Sumo Dead (brief/wraps) - 8 singles
Partial Squat - 6 triples

Day 7: OFF

Repeat for two weeks then take a week where you train maybe twice a week, at 50% on the main lifts.

Edit - Practically speaking, you could do all that in 3 days per week, if you did 3 exercises a session. We agreed that two main per day is probably the way to go.

BendtheBar 10-29-2011 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fazc (Post 184650)
I picked the Deadlift variations at random, we'd each pick the 3 we think would be most helpful to us.

I gotcha. Glad you did because it got me thinking about sumos.

Quote:

Yep, some upper back work needs to be in somewhere and if you only want to Press twice then that could work fine. But we don't want to risk diluting the routine with too many exercises or producing residual fatigue if you sandwich the Bent Row between two lower body days. How would you fit that in overall?
I generally don't need much work for back. Usually one set of dumbbell rows or a couple of barbell rows a week to keep my strength up.

I was mulling over:

Day 1
Heavy bench - Work up in singles, back off set with 275.
Dumbbell rows - 1 set
Military Press -

Day 2
Heavy military - Work up in singles, back off set with 185.
Barbell rows - 1-2 working sets
Bench Press/CGBP -

Consistent heavy work has not been a part of my workouts in a year or more because of the strains and pains. But, adding the Sling Shot I was able to train heavy every week. I may be able to do triples on bench on the second day but I will need a month to see how my body is handling the heavy days first.

How are you structuring your triples? Ramped?

With bench and press I really need to take a new direction, so hopefully frequent heavy work will pay off.

Also not sure if I need 2 OHP days. Thoughts?


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