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Old 05-25-2012, 07:11 AM   #611
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Frequent doubles and triples are generally too much wear and tear for me. Truthfully, for me I believe the key is to underwork them rather than overwork them, and to hit them hard prior to a deload. Still working on that balance though.

I hit a 315 strict after months of not using them at all. When I run them every week I make little progress. So like I said, still trying to find the sweet spot.
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Old 05-25-2012, 07:24 AM   #612
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What type of intensity are you thinking for OHPs? I seem to run into trouble over 90% but stagnate at 70-75%. I haven't found my sweet spot yet.
One top set will do I think, It'll probably be medium-high reps but it'll more than likely vary a lot. I'll just try and push the poundage or reps up each session. The back offs with a different exercise seems to work better for me.

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Sounds like doubles/triples @ 80% or singles @85% would be just the ticket. Just progress when you feel comfortable. I take it you do strict presses? I like push presses because they are incredibly explosive with triples just about perfect though singles are also really good stuff.
While I think multiple low rep sets are amazing for strength, I need to realise that multiple top sets are just too much for my body on a consistent basis. I've looked through my logs and I have a history of pains and creaks from this type of volume. And that isn't just restricted to now, it was the same in the past. As I get stronger the overall increase in volume due to warm-up sets is vast. For comparison here is my last Squat workout and my brothers workload in the same workout:

Mine (all triples): Bar, 60kg, 100kg, 140kg, 180kg, 200kg, 220kg, 220kg, 220kg, 230kg

Bro's (all triples): Bar, 60kg, 100kg, 140kg, 180kg, 180kg, 180kg, 180kg

Same number of worksets but look at the vast difference in terms of poundage and workload lifted. Even he is starting to see issues at this weight and volume.

Compare this to a 180kg Squatter:

Hypthetical Squatter: Bar, 20kg, 100kg, 140kg, 160, 160, 160, 160

Considerably less still. At the level of strength and gear use I'm at, doing multiple top sets is just far too much.
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Old 05-25-2012, 07:37 AM   #613
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While I think multiple low rep sets are amazing for strength, I need to realise that multiple top sets are just too much for my body on a consistent basis.
Same thing here.
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Old 05-25-2012, 07:42 AM   #614
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Same thing here.
The only thing that I'd consider is that multiple low rep sets do work, and do provide a good basis to peak later. Perhaps as part of a larger monthly plan both could/should be incoporated.

I do tend to flip-flop between the two in a relatively unstructured way at the moment, perhaps that needs to be more formalised.
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Old 05-25-2012, 08:06 AM   #615
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I've been thinking strong about periodizing them in some form or fashion, not pressuring myself to always go heavy. I do believe with this specific lift I need a concrete structure so I am not tempted to go for a PR every time in the gym.

When I was using them once a week in a bodybuilding manner, or even 5x a week during my Drunk Russian program, I was able to handle the lift and variations because I was not training with high intensity, but I was also stagnating. My OHPs were stuck for about 2 years, like my bench.
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Old 05-25-2012, 09:50 AM   #616
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Yet again I have fallen into the trap of not being able to identify with a 500-600 squatter/deadlifter, 315 presser as I am nowhere near that level. 80% of your 1RM for OHP Steve would be 252 so doing that for triples would certainly be wearing. For me, 187 is my push press max (unsure of my strict max) so doing 80-85% of that for triples isn't too hard.

An idea, just tossing it out there, would maybe for you to have an estimate of what you could comfortably do a triple for without overreaching then perhaps doing 3 x singles at that weight instead (250 x 1 x 3 rather than 250x3). Or else you could do that with a 4RM and do 4 x singles instead or 5RM and 5 x singles. That might give you decent work without too much strain.

You probably do that for your other lifts so this 'advice' may be complete rubbish!
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Old 05-25-2012, 10:29 AM   #617
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Don't get me wrong Kuyt, I didn't mean to dismiss your idea. The idea is solid and time proven, I just think I need to learn from my past training history before I snap all my shit up. Back off volume in the form of another exercise works well for me and reduces over-use stress, something which I tend to pick up easily now.

I might play around with high volume and low volume weeks, who knows.

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An idea, just tossing it out there, would maybe for you to have an estimate of what you could comfortably do a triple for without overreaching then perhaps doing 3 x singles at that weight instead (250 x 1 x 3 rather than 250x3). Or else you could do that with a 4RM and do 4 x singles instead or 5RM and 5 x singles. That might give you decent work without too much strain.
Good idea. I'm not ruling anything out at this stage, the raw days are accessories to my equipped days but I wouldn't rule out doing multiple singles either.
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Old 05-25-2012, 01:29 PM   #618
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Don't get me wrong Kuyt, I didn't mean to dismiss your idea. The idea is solid and time proven, I just think I need to learn from my past training history before I snap all my shit up. Back off volume in the form of another exercise works well for me and reduces over-use stress, something which I tend to pick up easily now.

I might play around with high volume and low volume weeks, who knows.



Good idea. I'm not ruling anything out at this stage, the raw days are accessories to my equipped days but I wouldn't rule out doing multiple singles either.
I'm not suggesting that either you or Steve are dismissing what I said at all. (It's hard to gauge someone's 'tone' online
In fact, I was admitting that the error is mine as there is world of difference between someone with many years of heavy training + high strength level and someone with a year of proper training + some years arseing about with a beginner strength level.
The higher your level, the less work you're realistically able to do at certain percentages. 85% for triples off 200 is miles away from the stress caused by 85% of 500 and that's what you and Steve have been pointing out.
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Old 05-25-2012, 03:01 PM   #619
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The higher your level, the less work you're realistically able to do at certain percentages. 85% for triples off 200 is miles away from the stress caused by 85% of 500 and that's what you and Steve have been pointing out.
Part of me thinks that's because even getting past 180kg with the eventual goal of a 230kg workload is actually pretty hard work. 180kg certainly requires everything to *fire* if you know what I mean. So factoring that in is probably a good idea when looking at total volume.

There was probably a reason Starr switched to ramping sets for his intermediate/advanced trainees.

You know the more I know, or remember in this case, the more it all comes back to Starr. That guy knew way more than any strength coach in my opinion.
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Old 05-28-2012, 05:19 PM   #620
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Thinking about doing some speed work. Probably in light gear.

Undecided on when to do it; on it's own day or after some heavier work and how mant sets/reps and especially rest periods. I'm usually quite explosive, I was considering even shorter rest periods to make it harder.
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