Muscle and Brawn Forums
 

Go Back   Muscle and Brawn Forums > Training > Training Resources
Mark Forums Read
Register Articles Members List Search Today's Posts

Notices

Training Resources Workouts, Form Videos, Muscle and Strength Training Articles...everything you need. Forum includes the best posts from the forum.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 01-14-2012, 12:43 PM   #341
tank
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 5,446, Level: 47 Points: 5,446, Level: 47 Points: 5,446, Level: 47
Activity: 16% Activity: 16% Activity: 16%
 
tank's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: NC, USA
Posts: 2,329
Training Exp: Rookie
Training Type: Fullbody
Fav Exercise: Squat
Fav Supp: Food
Reputation: 19889
tank is a dedicated contributortank is a dedicated contributortank is a dedicated contributortank is a dedicated contributortank is a dedicated contributortank is a dedicated contributortank is a dedicated contributortank is a dedicated contributortank is a dedicated contributortank is a dedicated contributortank is a dedicated contributor
Default

i'm sure you're both well aware of this, but from recent experience, a little step back and time off can be the difference between a nose-dive and continued progress.

it reminds me of a saying i heard as a musician, "sometimes it's about the notes you don't play that makes beatiful music."

clearly the program works, maybe all you need is a break?
__________________
My Training Journal 5' 8" Current BW 207 (94) lbs (kg)

20 JAN 12 at 200 (90) BW - 385/275/405 (175/125/184) SQ/B/D

29 MAY 12 at 206 (93) BW - 135/175 (61/79) SN/CJ
tank is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 01-14-2012, 12:44 PM   #342
Fazc
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 14,403, Level: 77 Points: 14,403, Level: 77 Points: 14,403, Level: 77
Activity: 36% Activity: 36% Activity: 36%
 

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: U.K
Posts: 5,554
Training Exp: 12+ years
Training Type: Powerlifting
Fav Exercise: Bench Press
Fav Supp: Chicken
Reputation: 420568
Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!
Default

You know I'd probably go ahead and take the break this coming week Steve, by the sounds of it you haven't had the easiest couple of weeks both mentally and physically so instead of beating yourself up further just relax a little and let yourself unwind.
Fazc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2012, 01:03 PM   #343
BendtheBar
Bearded Beast of Duloc
Max Brawn
Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100
Activity: 49% Activity: 49% Activity: 49%
 
BendtheBar's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 79,812
Training Exp: 20+ years
Training Type: Powerbuilding
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Fav Supp: Butter
Reputation: 2583792
BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!
Default

Off tomorrow. Back at it Monday. I missed a couple workouts this week. More than anything I need my structure. Have a great weekend guys.
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Destroy That Which Destroys You

"Let bravery be thy choice, but not bravado."


BendtheBar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2012, 01:17 PM   #344
Fazc
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 14,403, Level: 77 Points: 14,403, Level: 77 Points: 14,403, Level: 77
Activity: 36% Activity: 36% Activity: 36%
 

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: U.K
Posts: 5,554
Training Exp: 12+ years
Training Type: Powerlifting
Fav Exercise: Bench Press
Fav Supp: Chicken
Reputation: 420568
Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!
Default

Fair enough. I'll actually carry on training 6 times next week just so I'm in the habit of getting out there as well. Figure I'll just do some light work each time.
Fazc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2012, 09:47 AM   #345
Pull14
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 3,581, Level: 37 Points: 3,581, Level: 37 Points: 3,581, Level: 37
Activity: 4% Activity: 4% Activity: 4%
 
Pull14's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: New Jersey, US
Posts: 1,117
Training Type: Fullbody
Reputation: 32208
Pull14 is a lifting machinePull14 is a lifting machinePull14 is a lifting machinePull14 is a lifting machinePull14 is a lifting machinePull14 is a lifting machinePull14 is a lifting machinePull14 is a lifting machinePull14 is a lifting machinePull14 is a lifting machinePull14 is a lifting machine
Default

Looking for your guys option on a deload of sorts. While not completely beat up, my reps have been getting a little slow and grindy this past week (though it was a pretty stressful week outside of lifting). I'd also like to see where my maxes stand outside of the regular training stresses (down sets/volume).

The plan I've been considering was dropping my lighter "B" days (clean/press, pulls) and just going with the 3x a week of the clean/push press and squat. Work up to a daily max with no down sets and move onto the next lift.

My thinking here is that the daily doesn't provide a lot of stress but still gets me under heavy weight - after all, in the context of my training the daily max is not "an end in itself, but the starting point." With the down sets removed, weekly stress is very little. I can only guess but this will set me up for a much stronger max on the 2nd and 3rd session or set me up for a much stronger 1st session after this "deload."

Would appreciate any ideas here.

Just a quick recap of my training since its different from your own... 5 days a week. Days 1 and 5 work up to daily max on clean/push press and squat followed by 2x3 and 3x2 down sets... 1-3 additional sets on squat. Day 3 is same for c/pp but I front squat with same down sets. Days 2 and 4 are clean/press to daily max, 6x2 down sets and a either a fast "heavy" pull or slow/moderate intensity pull from the floor for 6x3. Down sets are dropped between 40 and 15lbs of daily max depending on reps used.

Last edited by Pull14; 01-16-2012 at 09:51 AM.
Pull14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2012, 09:59 AM   #346
Fazc
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 14,403, Level: 77 Points: 14,403, Level: 77 Points: 14,403, Level: 77
Activity: 36% Activity: 36% Activity: 36%
 

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: U.K
Posts: 5,554
Training Exp: 12+ years
Training Type: Powerlifting
Fav Exercise: Bench Press
Fav Supp: Chicken
Reputation: 420568
Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pull14 View Post
The plan I've been considering was dropping my lighter "B" days (clean/press, pulls) and just going with the 3x a week of the clean/push press and squat. Work up to a daily max with no down sets and move onto the next lift.
I've heard of a couple of ways the Bulgarians would do the deloads.

1) Deload every 4th week by keeping the intensity high with a daily max but dropping the down sets. So you have good precedent for doing it that way. I also know a lifter friend of mine of a few years who trains like this on the powerlifts (on a different board).

2) They would deload basically when injured! Which was about every 4th week! There is some ambiguity about this exactly but there may be some truth in it when you look at burn-out rates etc.

So yeah, keeping the daily max and dropping the down sets seems to be a good option. I'd give it a shot. I couldn't do that myself with the powerlifts as this is one way they are very different but I'd be interested in seeing how you cope with it.

Cheers for the update Pull, I need to get around to writing one myself.
Fazc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2012, 12:13 PM   #347
Fazc
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 14,403, Level: 77 Points: 14,403, Level: 77 Points: 14,403, Level: 77
Activity: 36% Activity: 36% Activity: 36%
 

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: U.K
Posts: 5,554
Training Exp: 12+ years
Training Type: Powerlifting
Fav Exercise: Bench Press
Fav Supp: Chicken
Reputation: 420568
Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!
Default

Quick update.

Evening sessions have been something like this:

Day 1: Shirted Bench
Day 3: Banded CGBP
Day 5: Slingshot Bench

Day 2: Suited Squat, Partial Deadlift
Day 4: Parallel Box Squat, RDL+Shrug
Day 6: Partial Squat, Deficit/Shrug/Row (one of those)

Day 7: OFF

I've been doing more GMs lately to give my knees a break from the Squats but basically this has been the plan. Day 6 is a little sketchy since I'm usually knackered by then so it's a matter of finding something which I can do while tired. Partial Squats are a good option for Squat work. Deficits seem a bit much on those days, Shrugs or Rows may be a decent option.

I switch between multiple sets across or a daily max + back offs depending on how I'm feeling.

Morning sessions have been either one of these:

Day 1: Press, Partial Press BTN
Day 2: Power Clean, Power Snatch.

Usually 6 doubles each. Really enjoying the Presses and Cleans.

In terms of numbers I'm pretty confident with some more suit/shirt work 260/220/260 will go down within the next few months.
Fazc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2012, 02:32 PM   #348
BendtheBar
Bearded Beast of Duloc
Max Brawn
Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100
Activity: 49% Activity: 49% Activity: 49%
 
BendtheBar's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 79,812
Training Exp: 20+ years
Training Type: Powerbuilding
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Fav Supp: Butter
Reputation: 2583792
BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pull14 View Post

The plan I've been considering was dropping my lighter "B" days (clean/press, pulls) and just going with the 3x a week of the clean/push press and squat. Work up to a daily max with no down sets and move onto the next lift.
I remarked to Fazc this weekend that doing a heavy single without drop downs sets was extremely easy for my body to handle.
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Destroy That Which Destroys You

"Let bravery be thy choice, but not bravado."


BendtheBar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2012, 06:23 PM   #349
Pull14
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 3,581, Level: 37 Points: 3,581, Level: 37 Points: 3,581, Level: 37
Activity: 4% Activity: 4% Activity: 4%
 
Pull14's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: New Jersey, US
Posts: 1,117
Training Type: Fullbody
Reputation: 32208
Pull14 is a lifting machinePull14 is a lifting machinePull14 is a lifting machinePull14 is a lifting machinePull14 is a lifting machinePull14 is a lifting machinePull14 is a lifting machinePull14 is a lifting machinePull14 is a lifting machinePull14 is a lifting machinePull14 is a lifting machine
Default

Thanks for the input guys... reaffirms my original thoughts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fazc View Post
2) They would deload basically when injured! Which was about every 4th week! There is some ambiguity about this exactly but there may be some truth in it when you look at burn-out rates etc.
In my readings of the bulgarian 'system' I've found the same. Several olympic coachs on the national level have also pointed out that those staying true to the system only do so for a "limited" time each year simply because injury and burn out prevents them from working only the main lifts at that high of a frequency and intensity. When injury/burnout sets in quite a bit of effort is put into more "structured" means of training and different variations lasting a week up to many months.

If you follow the US lifter Donny Shankle, he messed his hip up really bad training under Abadjiev a few years back. Only recently has he been to over come many of the issues.

Granted I dont train like they do... injury doesn't seem to be an imminent issue. If you stretch it a bit its probably close to the "Americanized Bulgarian system." Varying lifting and intensities thoughout the week. For me this turns out to be heavy, light, medium, light, heavy. Most all lifts are pushed to a daily, but total load on the bar/stress is varied based on the variation of lift.

Thanks for the update on your own training. A bit difficult at times to see the big picture just going off of individual log posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BendtheBar View Post
I remarked to Fazc this weekend that doing a heavy single without drop downs sets was extremely easy for my body to handle.
I've found this to be the case for me as well. Took some time getting used to but after that, it becomes routine, efficiency increases and body handles the stress well.

Thanks again!


Thanks

Last edited by Pull14; 01-16-2012 at 06:27 PM.
Pull14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2012, 04:06 PM   #350
Kuytrider
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 8,127, Level: 60 Points: 8,127, Level: 60 Points: 8,127, Level: 60
Activity: 1% Activity: 1% Activity: 1%
 

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Leicester, UK
Posts: 2,624
Training Exp: 4
Training Type: Powerlifting
Fav Exercise: Squat
Fav Supp: Protein Powder
Reputation: 124218
Kuytrider is a master memberKuytrider is a master memberKuytrider is a master memberKuytrider is a master memberKuytrider is a master memberKuytrider is a master memberKuytrider is a master memberKuytrider is a master memberKuytrider is a master memberKuytrider is a master memberKuytrider is a master member
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BendtheBar View Post
I remarked to Fazc this weekend that doing a heavy single without drop downs sets was extremely easy for my body to handle.
The powerlifter guy I keep mentioning does this a lot. I see him come in and do a few sets which culminates in a heavy single. He did 220kg for the deadlift last week for example. He then leaves. The whole thing is over in 20-30 minutes. He says he does more sets and reps in the evening.

Anyway, I was considering something like this but I figure I could stretch it out over a higher number of sessions than 5.

Monday:
Clean + Press - 15 singles (90%) or 10x3 (80%) Going to use progression and increase weights when all sets completed.
Clean - Work up to daily max and drop to some doubles/trebles or else just leave it at the max single
Weighted Dips: 3 x 8

Tuesday:
Deads - Same as C+P
Shrugs - Not sure, grip is woeful so 3x8 good here or a heavier 5x3? (also I need grip work).
H-curls: 3 x 8

Wednesday:
Squat: 10x3
GM's: 5x5
Close Grip Bench: 3 x 8

Friday:
Bench: Same as deads/C+P
BTNP: 3 x 8
Pendlay Row: 5x3

Sunday:
Squats: 10-15 singles
RDL's: 5x5
21's: 3 sets

I would do abs and cross trainer intervals on alternate days and chins/pulls as and when I am able! I was originally hoping to do Saturdays for the final session but I would rather Sundays. I would have no problem doing squats more days a week or incorporating dynamic days. But I know that the above plan needs to be stretched out and maybe remove unnecessary exercises and include important ones and this may well just be too much volume and stress on the body though regular deloads would be taken.

Last edited by Kuytrider; 01-21-2012 at 04:18 PM.
Kuytrider is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
increasing, strength


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Increasing weight smalldon Muscle Building and Bodybuilding 5 06-02-2012 08:32 AM
Increasing strength during a cut MVP Powerlifting & Strength Training 3 03-12-2012 10:54 AM
Increasing testoserone levels jack3d Nutrition, Diet and Supplements 8 01-15-2012 01:32 AM
Increasing your bench! sneezingstardust Muscle Building and Bodybuilding 15 04-28-2010 06:36 AM
Increasing Deadlift Strength TitanWIP Powerlifting & Strength Training 22 12-23-2009 12:02 PM

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:04 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.