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Old 10-29-2011, 12:04 PM   #11
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Edit - Practically speaking, you could do all that in 3 days per week, if you did 3 exercises a session. We agreed that two main per day is probably the way to go.
2 main per day is definitely my limit, especially with heavy work.

I could go 6 days a week if I wanted. My recovery is very solid. Perhaps keep a middle day for OHPs. Still trying to figure out back work. Perhaps I don't need it at all with all the deadlifting. So maybe I am being stubborn.
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Old 10-29-2011, 12:10 PM   #12
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Heavy bench - Work up in singles, back off set with 275.
and

Heavy military - Work up in singles, back off set with 185.
In regards to the sets/reps there, you got some options there. If you ramp up to 1 top single, then drop down to 90% of that and do the rest of your singles there. That gives you a 1RM for the day, and you base the rest of the worksets on that. That way you can gauge improvement immediately from your initial single.

Or, just pick a comfortable 90% weight and do your singles with that weight. Less chance of burn out, but it's a little guess work as to whether you're improving your 1RM.

Either would work I think, but I'd definitely do at least most of your singles using sets across, 1 top single just wouldn't be enough workload and potentially risky to do week in week out. That's what I figure anyway, I'd rather do my 8 singles with 180-190kg rather than ramp up and past 220kg consistently every time. More form practice, more strengthening. It's a hell of a lotta work though.

Out of interest; Ditillo recommends multiple singles (5-8), then take 20lbs off the bar and do a couple doubles, then take another 20lbs off and do 3 triples.

Last edited by Fazc; 10-29-2011 at 12:13 PM.
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Old 10-29-2011, 12:10 PM   #13
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This thread is really awesome, if it is cool with you guys, I will put up my thoughts for increasing my strength and see how it compares to what you are doing. I have some pretty good ideas flowing, basically using a westside approach, but it may give you some ideas.
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Old 10-29-2011, 12:12 PM   #14
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I could go 6 days a week if I wanted. My recovery is very solid. Perhaps keep a middle day for OHPs. Still trying to figure out back work. Perhaps I don't need it at all with all the deadlifting. So maybe I am being stubborn.
I think just some low stress upper back work supersetted with the main press for the day would work. Like I recommend to the guys, slip in some easy DB Rows, or Chins in between each set of Benches/Presses. I'll probably end up doing 8 sets of chins a few times a week, but just easy reps.

I think a middle day for OHP is a solid idea, especially for unequipped. I'm tempted to try another partial bench move that day instead.

Last edited by Fazc; 10-29-2011 at 12:14 PM.
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Old 10-29-2011, 12:15 PM   #15
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JWood for sure.

Just throwing this out there as well:

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Old 10-29-2011, 12:31 PM   #16
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One thing that has helped me is periodisation (sp?) I am not talking like conjugating or anything really technical, but with 5/3/1 the intensity is always there but the weight isnt always crazy heavy. I still think the hardest week is the 5rm week while the heaviest week seems to be the easiest. This could speak a lot about my inability to be strong in certain rep ranges or the fact the periodizing weights is great for me. I also believe in training your weak points. Now that I am more of an intermediate lifter I have noticed some weak points that I have. One glaring weak point is my lockout on deadlift. I can pull 500 to my knees relatively easily, but have no chance at locking it out yet. I have attacked this weakpoint with heavy rack pulls and I am making progress like i was when on BS 5X5. Another huge key for me is to have fun lifting weights. Sometimes a PR in a completely meaningless lift is perfect to get the brain pointed in the correct direction. Also, what works for the huge dude at the gym, might not work for you. Learn your body, pay attention to what is telling you, and apply that to your training. If I had a nickel for everytime someone has told me that X lift helped my squat or bench, I would be a lot better off financially.

Cliffs:
Training in the 95% range all the time is couterproductive(for me at least)
Work your weak points
This is fun, treat it as such
Never stop learning about how your body reacts to certain styles of training.
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12 inch Log Press: 250
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Atlas Stone: 300 over 48" bar
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Old 10-29-2011, 12:47 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by austin.j.taylor View Post
Cliffs:
Training in the 95% range all the time is couterproductive(for me at least)
Work your weak points
This is fun, treat it as such
Never stop learning about how your body reacts to certain styles of training.
Yep, in regards to periodisation that is what we're talking about with 2 weeks heavy and 1 week light. Periodisation doesn't need to be a complicated affair, but the basis of what we're saying here is that the loading needs to be sufficiently heavy in nature to warrant the third week off. What we're discussing here is severe loading patterns for those 2 weeks. The motivation for that is the training of some elite lifters we know of, while we cannot hope to emulate that type of training all the time, i think it's good to shoot for periods of that kind of intense training some of the time backed up with plenty of rest in between.

I fully believe that to be better than average requires harder than just 'average' training which is sustainable for long periods and my experience has borne that out.

We talked in length about specifity with the end result being that we figured weak points could be addressed via partial lifts. So the lifts and their variations form the bulk of the workout.

I find this type of discussion fun Good points Austin, I'd like to hear more of your input on what i've said above.

Last edited by Fazc; 10-29-2011 at 12:50 PM.
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Old 10-29-2011, 12:52 PM   #18
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Default My Template

I am going to lay out everything I have in my head right now as far as a Westside template goes:

Here will be the days:
Day 1: ME bench and bench accessory
Day 2: ME Squat and dead assist
Day 3: DE Bench and OHP
Day 4: DE Squat and heavy deads

Everything will be done in 3 week cycles and then a deload:
ME Bench
Week 1: Working up to a 1 rm max
Week 2: Volume day: 5-8 sets of 3-5 reps with about 85% of max
Week 3: Overload day: Work up to 90% then hit heavier weights off boards

ME Squat similar style
Week 1: Work up to a 1 rm
Week 2: volume: 85% for reps
Week 3: High box squats

DE Bench
Week 1: speed bench: high band tension low bar weight
Week 2 : low band tension higher bar weight
Week 3: middle bar weight w/ chains

DE Squat
Week 1: no box, low tension high weight
Week 2: box, heavy tension low weight
Week 3: no box, high tension low weight

Deads: All will be sumo for now
Week 1:Work up to a 1 rm
Week 2: volume sets of 3-5
Week 3 Deficit pulls

Not sure how I will do my overhead pressing yet, but I would like to fit it into this basic style. But I do not really like partials for OHP. Also, I may use different bars on some of the weeks, for instance on bench volume day I may use a cambered bar or swiss bar. And on DE squats I may use the Yoke bar.

I have been feeling out the westside template for the past few months, so I am now trying to get more of a plan when I get to the gym. I am going to continue with the same assistance I am doing now.
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Old 10-29-2011, 01:06 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Fazc View Post
Yep, in regards to periodisation that is what we're talking about with 2 weeks heavy and 1 week light. Periodisation doesn't need to be a complicated affair, but the basis of what we're saying here is that the loading needs to be sufficiently heavy in nature to warrant the third week off. What we're discussing here is severe loading patterns for those 2 weeks. The motivation for that is the training of some elite lifters we know of, while we cannot hope to emulate that type of training all the time, i think it's good to shoot for periods of that kind of intense training some of the time backed up with plenty of rest in between.

I fully believe that to be better than average requires harder than just 'average' training which is sustainable for long periods and my experience has borne that out.

We talked in length about specifity with the end result being that we figured weak points could be addressed via partial lifts. So the lifts and their variations form the bulk of the workout.

I find this type of discussion fun Good points Austin, I'd like to hear more of your input on what i've said above.
I agree with everything you said. The only point I would make is the newer the lifter, the less periodisation they need. When I was a rookie I ran BS 5X5 for for 6 months straight with no deload. I ran the program for a total of around 18 months and the stronger I got, the more often I needed to deload and reset. Honestly consistancy and dedication are much better than knowledge for the beginner lifter. Once a beginner starts to get too smart, they overthink everything and set up a horrible conjugate training system and make little to no gains. It really bugs me when someone with a 700 pound total tries to apply techniques of a person with an 1800 pound total to their training. Mostly because they can get to a bigger number with a much simpler program and have much better results.
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PR's as of 10/24/2011:
Squat: 418
Bench: 292
Deadlift: 473
Push Press: 235X3
Clean and Strict Press: 175X3
12 inch Log Press: 250
Yoke: 650X18.5'
Atlas Stone: 300 over 48" bar
Hummer Tire Dead: 500X3
18" Deadlift: 550
Many more PR's to come
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Old 10-29-2011, 01:09 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by jwood View Post
I am going to lay out everything I have in my head right now as far as a Westside template goes:

I have been feeling out the westside template for the past few months, so I am now trying to get more of a plan when I get to the gym. I am going to continue with the same assistance I am doing now.
I would also like to hear what you have done in the past to progress and I would like you to caveat that you are a BAMF when it comes to lifts, so a beginner doesnt need a program this complex. I would like to know what programs you run and what numbers you hit with various programs. Your strength is mind blowing to me.
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PR's as of 10/24/2011:
Squat: 418
Bench: 292
Deadlift: 473
Push Press: 235X3
Clean and Strict Press: 175X3
12 inch Log Press: 250
Yoke: 650X18.5'
Atlas Stone: 300 over 48" bar
Hummer Tire Dead: 500X3
18" Deadlift: 550
Many more PR's to come
Youtube user name: Coachlefty
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