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Old 02-12-2011, 10:25 AM   #41
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And we cant keep getting stronger and I do believe squatting over a certain amount is just not worth the injury risks. Arthur Jones said you dont need to squat much over 400lb for bodybuilding and that you should just keep adding reps, slow down tempo, pre exhuast etc...
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Old 02-12-2011, 10:42 AM   #42
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And we cant keep getting stronger and I do believe squatting over a certain amount is just not worth the injury risks. Arthur Jones said you dont need to squat much over 400lb for bodybuilding and that you should just keep adding reps, slow down tempo, pre exhuast etc...
Mr Jones obviously never met John Grimek, or Marvin Eder, or Reg Park, or, or, or , or.

Arthur Jones had an agenda to sell his products.
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Old 02-12-2011, 11:02 AM   #43
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maybe he did have an agenda but you got to admit you can get all the benefits of squatting by not using much more than 400lb for a working set. You can increase the feel of the weight by going slower thus not risking injury and using other intensity techniques. There are not many naturals who can squat 400lb for high reps and even fewer using a slow controlled tempo.

Reg Rark didn't use more than 400lb for his working weight when training for bodybuilding
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Old 02-12-2011, 11:13 AM   #44
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And we cant keep getting stronger and I do believe squatting over a certain amount is just not worth the injury risks. Arthur Jones said you dont need to squat much over 400lb for bodybuilding and that you should just keep adding reps, slow down tempo, pre exhuast etc...
I have been training for 23 years and I continue to get stronger at the age of 43. I've never had a training injury.

Advanced training techniques are not needed for naturals. You have to understand that there is a difference between natural training and steroid training. If you eat right and focus on simple progression you will never need to do anything fancy.

All that intensity stuff can fry the CNS. It's simply misguided, and for most beginners to intermediates it's a waste of time.

If you train with basic progression, not to failure, for 3-4 years and eat right you will have gained a lot of muscle. At that point you are approaching your natural muscular limits. Adding advanced techniques at this point, hoping to shock more gains, is a journey into a fantasy land that many take. You can't shock new gains after this point as a natural. It doesn't work that way.

With all due respect to Jones and Mentzer, they did not understand natural training and natural limits.
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Old 02-12-2011, 11:15 AM   #45
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You can increase the feel of the weight by going slower thus not risking injury and using other intensity techniques.
If you are lifting heavy and start adding in all these advanced techniques, slower reps, etc, you will be increasing your risk of injury. And CNS/connective tissue fatigue.

If you take the natural feel out of a lift, and add in new variables that change this natural feel, form and function, you are changing stresses placed upon the body and increasing the chance of injury.

It's simply not needed for naturals.

Heavy weight is a relative term.

Progression has to happen on some level for muscle gains. I don't care what techniques you are using. You have to get stronger. Do you want to get strong using advanced techniques which pre-fatigue muscles and change the natural dynamics of the lift, or do you want to get strong performing the lift naturally?

I'll take the second option all day.

It's not like I haven't tried everything under the sun. I know from experience, and am not theorizing.
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Old 02-12-2011, 11:22 AM   #46
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A natural lifter only needs to focus on progression for 3-4 years with basic lifts. If you do this you will get big. There is no reason whatsoever to complicate things.

After this point, what you do really doesn't matter. It's nearly all maintenance anyway.

You can't avoid adding heavy weight. You can't. No matter what approach you use, you have to use progression or you will fail.

Why point does it serve to add in advanced techniques as a beginner and intermediate? Complication does not remove the need for progression, nor does it make a lift safer. It makes a lift more dangerous. I know because I've tried.

Slow reps/negatives tax my CNS and connective tissue much more than regular, natural reps. That's a fact.
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Old 02-12-2011, 11:25 AM   #47
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Oh no! A HIT Jedi!!! Let's 'git 'im, before the propaganda spreads!!
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Old 02-12-2011, 11:27 AM   #48
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Oh no! A HIT Jedi!!! Let's 'git 'im, before the propaganda spreads!!
Now, now. This is a forum of respect.
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Old 02-12-2011, 11:30 AM   #49
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I believe in intensity in moderation, progression in moderation, density (more work in less time) in moderation, and volume in moderation. Intensity alone is a one legged chair, not much good for anything, and can hurt you in the process.
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Old 02-12-2011, 11:30 AM   #50
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And for the record, Reg Park was beastly strong for a natural. Let's not confuse natural strength and steroid-induced strength.
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