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Old 03-09-2010, 06:38 PM   #51
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Ideally speaking (in theory) there would be a perfect ratio of what to eat and how much to eat per body type/metabolism/whatever/etc..., to gain the quickest amount of muscle. It stands to reason to me that if the body is utilizing the nutrients one is taking in to build muscle efficiently, that less of that food would be stored as fat. But there's logic behind the idea of the body needing top put on fat to build the most muscle too. So it's all kinda confusin'.
Putting on muscle really is not that confusing or complicated. Work hard, eat, rest, repeat. Genetics, metabolic types, zodiac signs, menstrual cycles, etc. are all excuses in my book. People waste so much time theorizing about optimal protein blends, fast acting carbohydrates, meal frequency, etc. etc. etc. ad naseum. The more you complicate things, the harder it is to achieve your goals.
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Old 03-09-2010, 06:41 PM   #52
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Putting on muscle really is not that confusing or complicated. Work hard, eat, rest, repeat. Genetics, metabolic types, zodiac signs, menstrual cycles, etc. are all excuses in my book. People waste so much time theorizing about optimal protein blends, fast acting carbohydrates, meal frequency, etc. etc. etc. ad naseum. The more you complicate things, the harder it is to achieve your goals.
I agree with you and I disagree. How's that for complicated?
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Old 03-09-2010, 06:41 PM   #53
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Putting on muscle really is not that confusing or complicated. Work hard, eat, rest, repeat. Genetics, metabolic types, zodiac signs, menstrual cycles, etc. are all excuses in my book. People waste so much time theorizing about optimal protein blends, fast acting carbohydrates, meal frequency, etc. etc. etc. ad naseum. The more you complicate things, the harder it is to achieve your goals.
So true. I lol'd at Zodiac signs
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Old 03-09-2010, 06:50 PM   #54
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Putting on muscle really is not that confusing or complicated. Work hard, eat, rest, repeat. Genetics, metabolic types, zodiac signs, menstrual cycles, etc. are all excuses in my book. People waste so much time theorizing about optimal protein blends, fast acting carbohydrates, meal frequency, etc. etc. etc. ad naseum. The more you complicate things, the harder it is to achieve your goals.
Let me expound on my previous sarcasm.

I agree with: Putting on muscle really is not that confusing or complicated. Work hard, eat, rest, repeat.

I partially agree/disagree with: Genetics, metabolic types, zodiac signs, menstrual cycles, etc. are all excuses in my book.

...though I can't really disagree...because it's your book. But in my book, sometimes somethings are valid. Generally, I agree though...there's a lot of excuses going around. (I'm guilty).

I disagree with: The more you complicate things, the harder it is to achieve your goals.

Complicated vs. simple has nothing to do with success or failure. Good complicated or good simple is good. Bad complicated or bad simple is bad. One can complicate the stink out of things and still succeed if that's condusive to one's personality and whatnot. As long as proper principles are practiced (bleh...aliteration fail) then complicated or simple=irrelevant.
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Old 03-09-2010, 08:00 PM   #55
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Putting on muscle really is not that confusing or complicated. Work hard, eat, rest, repeat. Genetics, metabolic types, zodiac signs, menstrual cycles, etc. are all excuses in my book. People waste so much time theorizing about optimal protein blends, fast acting carbohydrates, meal frequency, etc. etc. etc. ad naseum. The more you complicate things, the harder it is to achieve your goals.
I agree with Ehubbs. The more I read about the history of iron, the more I realize that men moved mountains and packed on mass with protocols and diets far from what we would consider appropriate.

While I respect the pros that commented on this issue, because they know how to cut far better than I do, I'm not convinced that adding muscle with an eye towards minimizing fat gains is the most solid approach. In certain cases, I can see the need for lean bulks, especially with people that put on fat easily. But all the other micro-managing stuff - well, I've never used, and I'm far from a genetic wonder.
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Old 03-10-2010, 08:00 AM   #56
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People who complicate things are usually constantly altering what they are doing, which leads to inconsistency and thus further overanalysis of training and diet protocols. Think about mathematicians. They will often try and take some complex problem and boil it down to a simple equation. So my point is, stick to the equation even if some of the variables change.

Here is an example of what I mean by simplyfying things from people who usually dont get it on forums:

Q. I want to get big and strong?
A. Work Hard in the Squat, bench, DL, OHP, and Rows, eat like a horse, sleep, repeat.

Q. I want to get toned?
A. Take some estrogen.

Q. I want to get big and strong and ripped, and I also want to run a marathon. I am 6 feet tall and 145 lbs.
A. You are an idiot. You cant do all these things at once. Pick one goal and put all your energy into it.

Q. I have been following a PWO protocol with waxy maize and protein in a 2.87634 to 1 ratio, precisely 15 min and 37 seconds after I put down my last weight for the day. I have not gotten any bigger or leaner. What do you think is the optimal ratio of carbs to protein to maintain muscle mass and lose body fat?
A. Take that shake and shove it up your ass. Eat a steak and some potatoes. If 145 lbs isnt lean enough for you, perhaps consider estrogen as noted above. If you are really into the waxy maize than go buy yourself a bag full of corn startch from Costco. I really should start my own supplement company.

Anyway, I have a friend who is constantly asking me about this program or that program and guess where his strength has gone? One month its 5/3/1, then some other crap, and then HIT, and so on and so forth. Pick ONE thing and do it with an attitude. That is not to say dont try new things. Just don't overcomplicate things and change your routine or goals every week, month or even quarter.
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Old 03-10-2010, 08:10 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by ehubbard View Post
People who complicate things are usually constantly altering what they are doing, which leads to inconsistency and thus further overanalysis of training and diet protocols. Think about mathematicians. They will often try and take some complex problem and boil it down to a simple equation. So my point is, stick to the equation even if some of the variables change.

Here is an example of what I mean by simplyfying things from people who usually dont get it on forums:

Q. I want to get big and strong?
A. Work Hard in the Squat, bench, DL, OHP, and Rows, eat like a horse, sleep, repeat.

Q. I want to get toned?
A. Take some estrogen.

Q. I want to get big and strong and ripped, and I also want to run a marathon. I am 6 feet tall and 145 lbs.
A. You are an idiot. You cant do all these things at once. Pick one goal and put all your energy into it.

Q. I have been following a PWO protocol with waxy maize and protein in a 2.87634 to 1 ratio, precisely 15 min and 37 seconds after I put down my last weight for the day. I have not gotten any bigger or leaner. What do you think is the optimal ratio of carbs to protein to maintain muscle mass and lose body fat?
A. Take that shake and shove it up your ass. Eat a steak and some potatoes. If 145 lbs isnt lean enough for you, perhaps consider estrogen as noted above. If you are really into the waxy maize than go buy yourself a bag full of corn startch from Costco. I really should start my own supplement company.

Anyway, I have a friend who is constantly asking me about this program or that program and guess where his strength has gone? One month its 5/3/1, then some other crap, and then HIT, and so on and so forth. Pick ONE thing and do it with an attitude. That is not to say dont try new things. Just don't overcomplicate things and change your routine or goals every week, month or even quarter.

I like this post.
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Old 03-10-2010, 12:12 PM   #58
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[...]I'm not convinced that adding muscle with an eye towards minimizing fat gains is the most solid approach.
Perhaps not the most solid, yes. But, as I've said, it's related to agenda. There may be no reason for someone who doesn't want to get fat to just suck it up and get fat. I'm not saying for sure either way...because I just don't know. But I am saying that IF one can bulk 'clean' without putting on a ton of fat, then there's nothing wrong with doing it that way.
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Old 03-10-2010, 12:16 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by ehubbard View Post
People who complicate things are usually constantly altering what they are doing, which leads to inconsistency and thus further overanalysis of training and diet protocols. Think about mathematicians. They will often try and take some complex problem and boil it down to a simple equation. So my point is, stick to the equation even if some of the variables change.

Here is an example of what I mean by simplyfying things from people who usually dont get it on forums:

Q. I want to get big and strong?
A. Work Hard in the Squat, bench, DL, OHP, and Rows, eat like a horse, sleep, repeat.

Q. I want to get toned?
A. Take some estrogen.

Q. I want to get big and strong and ripped, and I also want to run a marathon. I am 6 feet tall and 145 lbs.
A. You are an idiot. You cant do all these things at once. Pick one goal and put all your energy into it.

Q. I have been following a PWO protocol with waxy maize and protein in a 2.87634 to 1 ratio, precisely 15 min and 37 seconds after I put down my last weight for the day. I have not gotten any bigger or leaner. What do you think is the optimal ratio of carbs to protein to maintain muscle mass and lose body fat?
A. Take that shake and shove it up your ass. Eat a steak and some potatoes. If 145 lbs isnt lean enough for you, perhaps consider estrogen as noted above. If you are really into the waxy maize than go buy yourself a bag full of corn startch from Costco. I really should start my own supplement company.

Anyway, I have a friend who is constantly asking me about this program or that program and guess where his strength has gone? One month its 5/3/1, then some other crap, and then HIT, and so on and so forth. Pick ONE thing and do it with an attitude. That is not to say dont try new things. Just don't overcomplicate things and change your routine or goals every week, month or even quarter.
The idea that someone who won't eat cheeseburgers and pizza to bulk is doing it wrong and overcomplicating things is ridiculous though. You're using some pretty extreme examples to back up your ideas. I get that. I get what you're saying (though I'm not sure 'you're an idiot' and 'shove it up your ass' are the best ways to put your point across ) But the thread's about whether cheeseburgers, tacos, etc... are a good way to bulk or not. Debating that they are not the best way to go is a far cry from the ridiculously complicated examples you've given.
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Old 03-10-2010, 02:51 PM   #60
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The idea that someone who won't eat cheeseburgers and pizza to bulk is doing it wrong and overcomplicating things is ridiculous though. You're using some pretty extreme examples to back up your ideas. I get that. I get what you're saying (though I'm not sure 'you're an idiot' and 'shove it up your ass' are the best ways to put your point across ) But the thread's about whether cheeseburgers, tacos, etc... are a good way to bulk or not. Debating that they are not the best way to go is a far cry from the ridiculously complicated examples you've given.
Where did I say to eat pizza and cheeseburgers to get big (I am not a fan of the term bulk)? Assumptions that I am not so sure they are clearly drawn out from what I wrote. Anyway, I'll take what I have leaned from bigger, stronger, and faster athletes that know the real deal than sit here on the internet arguing about the complexities in the biokenetic responses to strength training of the rabid homo sapien metrosexual. My point above was that you need to be consistant in what you do and NOT overthink things because in the end only a few things matter if you want to add muscle (consistancy, hard work, attitude, compound movements, and adequate food consumption).
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