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Old 12-04-2009, 08:03 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by kitarpyar View Post

B) So much for the closed door environment, in the past Viator has been known to admit that he sneaked out to get in extra workouts at the local gym since he was sceptical of HIT. So, no, it was not as closely monitored a study as Jones would have us believe.
Very good point.
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Old 12-04-2009, 08:55 PM   #42
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Old 12-10-2009, 02:37 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by kitarpyar View Post
B) So much for the closed door environment, in the past Viator has been known to admit that he sneaked out to get in extra workouts at the local gym since he was sceptical of HIT. So, no, it was not as closely monitored a study as Jones would have us believe.

What I am trying to get at, is that taking Casey Viator at face value is not a good idea. He is a great bodybuilder who knows his $hit, but no sir, he does not deserve to be taken at face value when he propounds this crap.
1) I have never read a quote from Casey that stated he did other workouts during the experiement.

2) Devil's advocate. If Casey lied, why was Arthur Jones lying to back him up?
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Old 12-10-2009, 02:48 PM   #44
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For myself the part that just screams bullshit is the claim of 63lbs of muscle
in 28 days.

Ok, lets think about this. If this was possible then why has this not become the way to build muscle? Granted, Casey Viator is well known for his super genetics. However, normal people should be able to at least reap some of the rewards of this program, if it actually worked.

Science requires that you publish your finding, as well as your control, so that your experiments can be duplicated by somebody else. Where are the other people who have been able to duplicate such radical muscle gains?

This whole experiment, sounds like a forerunner to the current T-Nation Anaconda protocal. They also are making radical claims of muscle building.

As has been shown through decades of work. The most genetically gifted natural BB's have normally only increased lean body mass by about 35lbs.
Lets be clear on something, I can not argue the validity of HIT, because it is the one system where i made most of my gains, but Jones was a salesman end of story. Most HIT jedi make him out to be a god, he wasn't, he was a salesman who developed a valid system for the sole purpose of selling his machines.
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Old 12-10-2009, 02:54 PM   #45
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HIT and full body aren't that far off. I have nothing against HIT. I simply have never needed to train to failure to make gains. I believe that progression is more important in the long run. I don't believe that "failure" training is evil. It's just too much pain for me.

I've tried HIT and Heavy Duty, and personally, I quit mentally before I do physically.

Regarding Jones...All I know is that those who surrounded him, from Darden to Mentzer, treated him like a god. Why? Who knows? Maybe he had the power of mind control.
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Old 12-10-2009, 03:12 PM   #46
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I train using a fairly high level of intensity. I don't make it a habit to train till absolute failure. I know when I have done the last rep that I can get out of a set. Instead I prefer to progress using a fairly simple linear progression, utilizing both rep, and weight increases. When reps are met, then weight increases. I try to keep things as simple as possible. This works for me. As well as lots of people through the years.

63lbs of actual new raw muscle building is just not possible. Futhermore, as has been stated, and shown through the years. At the most, even for a genetic superstar such as Reg park, he was able to increase his lean body mass by about 35lbs . Most people of normal genetic disposition will achieve less than this, using natural BB techniques.

Aurthor Jones was a buisnessman. Lets be clear on that point. Buisnessmen are interested in making money with their products. Farcical claims by companies are nothing new. Buyer beware is the watchword. If something seems to good to be true, it usually is.
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Old 12-10-2009, 03:28 PM   #47
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So do most HIT guys train 2 times, or 3 times a week? I've read one of Darden's books, and I believe it starts with 3 workouts per week, and then slowly backs off to 3 every 2 weeks, or something along those lines.

So basically, instead of splitting into a HLM approach, Darden advocates decreased frequency as one progresses. Either approach seems solid. The latter is more like Christy's.

The issue I have with HIT workouts that contain a laundry list of exercises is that it seems nearly impossible to complete them in under an hour unless you have complete access to a big gym.
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Old 12-10-2009, 04:24 PM   #48
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So do most HIT guys train 2 times, or 3 times a week? I've read one of Darden's books, and I believe it starts with 3 workouts per week, and then slowly backs off to 3 every 2 weeks, or something along those lines.

So basically, instead of splitting into a HLM approach, Darden advocates decreased frequency as one progresses. Either approach seems solid. The latter is more like Christy's.

The issue I have with HIT workouts that contain a laundry list of exercises is that it seems nearly impossible to complete them in under an hour unless you have complete access to a big gym.
If we are discussing Jones/Darden HIT then i agree with you, and it is one of the biggest weaknesses in the routine, plus the whole circuit aspect makes it less productive from a muscle building standpoint, but with that said, by making a few minor adjustments i do believe it could be much more beneficial than the standard version.
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Old 12-10-2009, 04:57 PM   #49
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For General Public, HIT is a great workout system. That is the population those guys were hitting. Honestly, it's not for US above average lifters. Just my opinion and experience.
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Old 12-10-2009, 07:32 PM   #50
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1) I have never read a quote from Casey that stated he did other workouts during the experiement.

2) Devil's advocate. If Casey lied, why was Arthur Jones lying to back him up?
1) Casey did say he sneaked in extra workouts. Only to backtrack later, and claim that what he wrote was a propaganda article, some years later. The article I am referring to is an article titled "Casey comes clean" in Muscle and Fitness - an article that was authored by Casey Viator, no less.

2) This is an easy one. If Arthur Jones did not back Casey up by lying ('roid use of extra volume) where did that leave him and his system?
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