Muscle and Brawn Forums
 

Go Back   Muscle and Brawn Forums > Training > Powerlifting & Strength Training
Mark Forums Read
Register Articles Members List Search Today's Posts

Notices

Powerlifting & Strength Training Topics related to powerlifting and strength training.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-03-2010, 12:07 AM   #1
DieselWeasel
Elite Raw Powerlifter
Max Brawn
Points: 6,832, Level: 54 Points: 6,832, Level: 54 Points: 6,832, Level: 54
Activity: 4% Activity: 4% Activity: 4%
 
DieselWeasel's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,670
Training Type: Powerlifting
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Fav Supp: Whey Powder
Reputation: 74259
DieselWeasel is a lifting beastDieselWeasel is a lifting beastDieselWeasel is a lifting beastDieselWeasel is a lifting beastDieselWeasel is a lifting beastDieselWeasel is a lifting beastDieselWeasel is a lifting beastDieselWeasel is a lifting beastDieselWeasel is a lifting beastDieselWeasel is a lifting beastDieselWeasel is a lifting beast
Default Fail With 545

I tried and failed to deadlift 545, yesterday, in the gym.

It was so damn fuckin' close to lock-out! I've narrowed it down to these two potential weak links in the deadlift:

a) glutes (final phase of hip extension, after the hamstrings)
b) upper back (final phase of trunk extension, after the spinal erectors)
c) combination of those two

However, I doubt that the problem lies in my upper back because I work the shit out of the scapular elevators and scapular retractors 3x per week with barbell shrugs, weighted pull-ups, barbell rows, along with occasionally doing face pulls and dumbbell rows.



^ That is where I failed the lift.

Here is the video:


Any suggestions/recommendations/analysis/advice/help would be greatly appreciated. BodyByGamma? BendTheBar? DocColossus? Craig Pfisterer?

Someone on another message board (NOT bb.com) told me that my hip flexors might be too tight and that could be inhibiting my glutes (hip extensor) from firing. He told me that he had the same problem and gave me a stretch which I never did before, so that might help too.

BTW, as a result of this EPIC FAIL, my meet PR attempt will probably be 540-541 (they use kg plates) instead of 545.
__________________
Journal: http://muscleandbrawn.com/forums/tra...s-journal.html
Videos: http://youtube.com/maxbm

RPS - Open 165 Raw - 07.13.13
1365 Elite/Pro Total (475,300,590)

Last edited by DieselWeasel; 08-03-2010 at 12:13 AM.
DieselWeasel is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 08-03-2010, 06:44 AM   #2
BendtheBar
Bearded Beast of Duloc
Max Brawn
Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100
Activity: 49% Activity: 49% Activity: 49%
 
BendtheBar's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 80,909
Training Exp: 20+ years
Training Type: Powerbuilding
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Fav Supp: Butter
Reputation: 2581830
BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!
Default

Great attempt Max.

I'm not as educated as many powerlifters, so take this suggestion for what it is. I notice during the ascent your hips stay locked. After lift off do you mentally think about pushing/thrusting your hips forward? It seems to me you're lifting with mostly back and the hips are left out.
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Destroy That Which Destroys You

"Let bravery be thy choice, but not bravado."


BendtheBar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2010, 08:08 AM   #3
IronManlet
With apelike velocity
Max Brawn
Points: 5,468, Level: 47 Points: 5,468, Level: 47 Points: 5,468, Level: 47
Activity: 8% Activity: 8% Activity: 8%
 
IronManlet's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,480
Training Exp: 2 years
Training Type: Heavy Duty
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Fav Supp: Steak
Reputation: 56904
IronManlet is a lifting beastIronManlet is a lifting beastIronManlet is a lifting beastIronManlet is a lifting beastIronManlet is a lifting beastIronManlet is a lifting beastIronManlet is a lifting beastIronManlet is a lifting beastIronManlet is a lifting beastIronManlet is a lifting beastIronManlet is a lifting beast
Default

Hey DW.

I noticed that you seem to pull with a rounded upper back; a technique I see a lot of other powerlifters use in order to decrease the bar ROM.

Now, far be it from me to tell you how you best pull; but, to my mind, this necessitates that your lower/mid-back will be locked out before your upper back, causing the actual strain of the lift to shift at about mid-thigh range (where you stalled). This makes it easier to pull off the ground, but much harder to lock out. What happens is that your lower back locks out before your hips/upper back, so your spine pretty much has to work in opposition to itself in order to get the weight up.

I see a lot of powerlifters fail their lifts at the lockout, and I don't really think that a ROM decrease of a few inches is worth all the trouble. When I set up to Deadlift, my form is like this guy in the video (skip to 0:40):



This makes the initial pull off the floor a bit harder, but ensures a strong lockout. Tbh, I can't imagine pulling any other way. It's usually the first few inches that are hardest for me; but once I get that sucker up a good 6 inches or so, it's mine. It shifts the focus off of your upper back and keeps it on the legs/lower back.

So what I would recommend is maybe a few test runs with a less-rounded upper back; just to see how you like it. If it doesn't feel right, then good luck with whatever you decide. If your upper back is what you want to work on, Pendlay Rows (DOH at 90 degrees) are probably best.

Good luck.
IronManlet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2010, 09:58 AM   #4
big valsalva
Viking Warrior
Max Brawn
Points: 9,101, Level: 64 Points: 9,101, Level: 64 Points: 9,101, Level: 64
Activity: 7% Activity: 7% Activity: 7%
 
big valsalva's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,614
Training Exp: 10 years
Training Type: 5x5
Fav Exercise: Bench Press
Fav Supp: Meat
Reputation: 72128
big valsalva is a lifting beastbig valsalva is a lifting beastbig valsalva is a lifting beastbig valsalva is a lifting beastbig valsalva is a lifting beastbig valsalva is a lifting beastbig valsalva is a lifting beastbig valsalva is a lifting beastbig valsalva is a lifting beastbig valsalva is a lifting beastbig valsalva is a lifting beast
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronManlet View Post
Hey DW.

I noticed that you seem to pull with a rounded upper back; a technique I see a lot of other powerlifters use in order to decrease the bar ROM.

Now, far be it from me to tell you how you best pull; but, to my mind, this necessitates that your lower/mid-back will be locked out before your upper back, causing the actual strain of the lift to shift at about mid-thigh range (where you stalled). This makes it easier to pull off the ground, but much harder to lock out. What happens is that your lower back locks out before your hips/upper back, so your spine pretty much has to work in opposition to itself in order to get the weight up.

I see a lot of powerlifters fail their lifts at the lockout, and I don't really think that a ROM decrease of a few inches is worth all the trouble. When I set up to Deadlift, my form is like this guy in the video (skip to 0:40):

YouTube - Deadlift.avi


This makes the initial pull off the floor a bit harder, but ensures a strong lockout. Tbh, I can't imagine pulling any other way. It's usually the first few inches that are hardest for me; but once I get that sucker up a good 6 inches or so, it's mine. It shifts the focus off of your upper back and keeps it on the legs/lower back.

So what I would recommend is maybe a few test runs with a less-rounded upper back; just to see how you like it. If it doesn't feel right, then good luck with whatever you decide. If your upper back is what you want to work on, Pendlay Rows (DOH at 90 degrees) are probably best.

Good luck.
I've been setting up like the guy at 0:40 as well. Lower butt. Back a little more erect. That way I can think of pulling BACK more so than UP. It's a subtle nuance.

Nail it DW! When's your comp?
__________________
Bogdan Petia Sarac - Must keel moose and squirrel

Cancer Survivor - 7/21/10

Benchmark 5K time: 27:45 (3/5/11)

It's not the weight we move, but the people we move that matters. -- Bearded Beast of Duloc (12/31/10)
big valsalva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2010, 09:30 PM   #5
DieselWeasel
Elite Raw Powerlifter
Max Brawn
Points: 6,832, Level: 54 Points: 6,832, Level: 54 Points: 6,832, Level: 54
Activity: 4% Activity: 4% Activity: 4%
 
DieselWeasel's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,670
Training Type: Powerlifting
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Fav Supp: Whey Powder
Reputation: 74259
DieselWeasel is a lifting beastDieselWeasel is a lifting beastDieselWeasel is a lifting beastDieselWeasel is a lifting beastDieselWeasel is a lifting beastDieselWeasel is a lifting beastDieselWeasel is a lifting beastDieselWeasel is a lifting beastDieselWeasel is a lifting beastDieselWeasel is a lifting beastDieselWeasel is a lifting beast
Default

BTB: Yeah, I need to make sure that I'm giving myself that cue to aggressively extend the hips.

Iron Manlet: The deadlift is not supposed to be similar to a squat. Therefore, your hips should NOT start too low. That is an inefficient way to pull. The round upper back has been working for me in the past and allowed me to successfully pull 535 @ 164.5 in my most recent meet. This technique has also tremendously benefited legendary deadlifters from the past and present, such as Peoples, Anello, and Konstantinovs, among others who make me and my 535 (or even 545) look weak as a kitten.

I think that I need to strengthen the glutes and upper back. However, I might just need to stretch the hip flexors (mainly iliopsoas), which seem to be inhibiting my glutes (hip extensor) from activating near lock-out. I mean, I have a muscular bubble-butt, so that latter issue might be the sole culprit, not a deficiency in strength.

big valsalva: My meet is on August 28th.
__________________
Journal: http://muscleandbrawn.com/forums/tra...s-journal.html
Videos: http://youtube.com/maxbm

RPS - Open 165 Raw - 07.13.13
1365 Elite/Pro Total (475,300,590)

Last edited by DieselWeasel; 08-03-2010 at 09:33 PM.
DieselWeasel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2010, 09:37 PM   #6
kman025
1st MOM
Max Brawn
Points: 12,439, Level: 72 Points: 12,439, Level: 72 Points: 12,439, Level: 72
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
 
kman025's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: OHIO
Posts: 4,829
Reputation: 26022
kman025 is a lifting machinekman025 is a lifting machinekman025 is a lifting machinekman025 is a lifting machinekman025 is a lifting machinekman025 is a lifting machinekman025 is a lifting machinekman025 is a lifting machinekman025 is a lifting machinekman025 is a lifting machinekman025 is a lifting machine
Default

with your row numbers i cant see it being your upper back...
User owns 1x Pumping Iron (25th Anniversary Special Edition)
__________________
I <3 front squats
kman025 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2010, 10:46 PM   #7
Bodybygamma
Strongman/Powerlifter
Max Brawn
Points: 13,632, Level: 75 Points: 13,632, Level: 75 Points: 13,632, Level: 75
Activity: 5% Activity: 5% Activity: 5%
 
Bodybygamma's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: NYC
Posts: 3,500
Training Exp: 3+years PL/SM Comps
Training Type: SFW!
Fav Exercise: DEATH-LIFT
Fav Supp: Muscle-Juice/MonsterRehab
Reputation: 104098
Bodybygamma is a master memberBodybygamma is a master memberBodybygamma is a master memberBodybygamma is a master memberBodybygamma is a master memberBodybygamma is a master memberBodybygamma is a master memberBodybygamma is a master memberBodybygamma is a master memberBodybygamma is a master memberBodybygamma is a master member
Default

Just eat more, sleep more, think about it over and over, and attempt it in 2 weeks when your fresh and SMASH IT! Physically look at it anyway you want, its mental. If you were in another atmosphere the screams of brothers of iron would have made you lock it out.

I am currently working on a dead lift tutorial/FAQS etc.. and am gonna see if Ehubbs will help me since he is a raw 700+ puller to give it more credibility lol.

But honestly don't overthink it, just grip and rip. SFW!

Technical wise I would say keep your leg stance the same if thats where your comfortable, but push your knees out as if you were squatting to engage your legs on the bottom of the lift but let the hips come through since as you lock they will go back in position.
Bodybygamma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2010, 12:35 AM   #8
onetiredkris
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 2,770, Level: 32 Points: 2,770, Level: 32 Points: 2,770, Level: 32
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
 
onetiredkris's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: North Hollywood, CA
Posts: 1,388
Reputation: 9751
onetiredkris is a consistent contributoronetiredkris is a consistent contributoronetiredkris is a consistent contributoronetiredkris is a consistent contributoronetiredkris is a consistent contributoronetiredkris is a consistent contributoronetiredkris is a consistent contributoronetiredkris is a consistent contributoronetiredkris is a consistent contributoronetiredkris is a consistent contributoronetiredkris is a consistent contributor
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronManlet View Post
Hey DW.

I noticed that you seem to pull with a rounded upper back; a technique I see a lot of other powerlifters use in order to decrease the bar ROM.

Now, far be it from me to tell you how you best pull; but, to my mind, this necessitates that your lower/mid-back will be locked out before your upper back, causing the actual strain of the lift to shift at about mid-thigh range (where you stalled). This makes it easier to pull off the ground, but much harder to lock out. What happens is that your lower back locks out before your hips/upper back, so your spine pretty much has to work in opposition to itself in order to get the weight up.

I see a lot of powerlifters fail their lifts at the lockout, and I don't really think that a ROM decrease of a few inches is worth all the trouble. When I set up to Deadlift, my form is like this guy in the video (skip to 0:40):

YouTube - Deadlift.avi


This makes the initial pull off the floor a bit harder, but ensures a strong lockout. Tbh, I can't imagine pulling any other way. It's usually the first few inches that are hardest for me; but once I get that sucker up a good 6 inches or so, it's mine. It shifts the focus off of your upper back and keeps it on the legs/lower back.

So what I would recommend is maybe a few test runs with a less-rounded upper back; just to see how you like it. If it doesn't feel right, then good luck with whatever you decide. If your upper back is what you want to work on, Pendlay Rows (DOH at 90 degrees) are probably best.

Good luck.
im a little more concerned with whats going on at the 1:02 mark
giggity

that vid is kick ass dw, your deadlifts are inspiring as hell. (hit or miss)!!!!
__________________

-OTK's LOG-
We lift weights and manipulate our diets so that we'll look good naked. Sure, it's healthy too, and we'll probably live a longer and more productive life than the average guy, but mostly it's about the naked thing.

onetiredkris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2010, 09:04 AM   #9
Craig Pfisterer
I Haz a Kat
Max Brawn
Points: 4,544, Level: 42 Points: 4,544, Level: 42 Points: 4,544, Level: 42
Activity: 4% Activity: 4% Activity: 4%
 
Craig Pfisterer's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Camp Hill, PA
Posts: 592
Training Type: Strongman
Fav Supp: ON's Pro Complex Gainer
Reputation: 15888
Craig Pfisterer is a dedicated contributorCraig Pfisterer is a dedicated contributorCraig Pfisterer is a dedicated contributorCraig Pfisterer is a dedicated contributorCraig Pfisterer is a dedicated contributorCraig Pfisterer is a dedicated contributorCraig Pfisterer is a dedicated contributorCraig Pfisterer is a dedicated contributorCraig Pfisterer is a dedicated contributorCraig Pfisterer is a dedicated contributorCraig Pfisterer is a dedicated contributor
Default

I deadlift the same style and lockout is quite a bear at times. Big benefits being decreased distance and speed off the floor. Granted I never really peak a lift doing strongman, you do have 24 days to work with. Some things that help me are mid shin rack pulls with lots of band tension (cutting back on them now). I started out with abou 200lbs of band tension but now use 315lbs of tension. This hits the glutes and upperback is a lift specific way. You may do heavy rows and shrugs to hit the upperback but they aren't hitting that area the way they are stressed with the rounded back pulling stlye. As for getting the hips through at the top (notice how the legs lock and then the glutes lock) some things that have been helping me with that is wide sumo stifflegged deadlifts and wide stance box squats (both heavy and speed with bands). Also helps having some yelling cues to you like HIPS!. Internally yelling that if you catch yourself sometimes helps me correct mid lift.
__________________
"Strongman is stupid."
- Mike Jenkins
Craig Pfisterer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2010, 11:11 AM   #10
RickB
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 2,802, Level: 32 Points: 2,802, Level: 32 Points: 2,802, Level: 32
Activity: 4% Activity: 4% Activity: 4%
 
RickB's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: N.E. Texas
Posts: 2,962
Reputation: 350
RickB is off to a good startRickB is off to a good startRickB is off to a good startRickB is off to a good start
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by onetiredkris View Post
im a little more concerned with whats going on at the 1:02 mark
giggity

that vid is kick ass dw, your deadlifts are inspiring as hell. (hit or miss)!!!!
No doubt! I was all serious about the starting form and then I was giggity too @ 1:02!


But yeah DW, you are a machine brother!
RickB is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
545, fail


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Protest Fail BendtheBar General Board 0 08-07-2012 11:21 AM
I spam I fail bidy Powerlifting & Strength Training 29 11-11-2011 11:51 AM
OCD fail thumpinos General Fitness & Health 4 08-14-2011 03:13 PM
Why Diets Fail BendtheBar Site Updates 1 08-13-2011 11:07 AM
Fail andys_trim General Board 1 12-05-2010 08:38 AM

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:34 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.