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Old 05-08-2010, 09:18 AM   #1
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Default Broz & The Strongest Kid in the World

I hate to re-open this can of worms, but here goes:

Bodybuilding.com Forums - View Single Post - Calling all OL'ers......

Quote:
John chose to pick fights with people on FI, the Oly section here, and GoHeavy (oh, and a couple of other sites that I forget the name of just now). He also insults people on YouTube and acts like he's infallible there, too. He carries a chip on his shoulder, is insulting, refuses to listen to any contrary opinions, and comes across like he thinks he is god. The PL forum here is the only place that he'll stay, because it's (mostly) a bunch of impressionable, inexperienced powerlifters with no knowledge about Olympic lifting whatsoever fellating him and stroking his ego, telling him he's a genius and the savior of American lifting, etc etc etc.

The guy's been coaching just over ONE year, has 2 awesome lifters that he recruited after they already had proven they were perhaps the strongest teenagers in the country. Mendes hasn't come within 25kg of his best gym lifts in a meet, and is pretty much always injured, according to reports from Broz himself and others who have been to his gym. Adell, Broz has said in his thread, hasn't even completely committed to Oly lifting, and juggles football alongside it, which reinforces the point that he's not even training "Bulgarian" style regularly and is simply perhaps one of the strongest kids in the country. He also failed to come remotely close to his gym lifts in a meet, and of course had excuses ready after Juniors.

That's all fine, since every lifter has injuries and doesn't always lift up to potential, but... Broz acts like a dick and treats people like garbage wherever he posts (unless they stroke his ego and fellate him repeatedly), and apparently can't engage reasonable, intelligent Olympic lifters or coaches in any sort of debate or productive discussion. In other words, he's your basic 14-year-old Internet idiot, who happens to be 41 and in charge of some really fantastic, amazing lifters.

To treat him like some sort of programming god and censor any dissent is ridiculous, immature, and insulting to the rest of us.

I repeat: give Mendes and Adell to any reasonably competent coach in this country and let them train them for a year. Do you really think they'd be lifting any less than they already are? If so, how much less and why? What specifically is Broz doing differently that makes his methods more effective? Perhaps another coach could have kept Mendes healthy the whole year and he'd be JERKING 240 by now.

Just sayin'
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Old 05-08-2010, 09:31 AM   #2
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I agree with everything you're saying, actually. I think it's very impressive to take a lifter with potential and help them realize that potential. I also think Broz's program works, particularly for those with the constitution to handle it. Of course other programs also work just as well, so if you're going to choose between a program that has you training to the brink of death and constant injury (which is what Broz has said you should do) 2-3 times a day, 6-7 days a week, basically making lifting your entire life, or another program that will have you training 1-2 times a day, 4-5 days a week, with the exact same results, which one would you choose?

My point is that Broz himself comes across as belittling, condescending, unwilling to accept other ideas, insistent that his own methods are the best, etc etc etc. He posted on a different message board with a lot of accomplished lifters, who basically laughed at his bro-sciency posts, so he insulted them and left. Same thing happened here in the Olympic lifting forum. Same thing happened on GoHeavy. Same thing happened on another board. So why should he get his own little insulated thread where he can pronounce down on the masses as though he was god, and have any and all criticism censored, while he's allowed to insult others at will?

Well, he shouldn't. It's as simple as that.
I seem to have lived the bold aspect of this post.
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Old 05-08-2010, 09:39 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by chyoly View Post
nice post here madaozeki. i've been reading some of the technical advice he's been giving, and it's clear he's learned from european coaches - terminology, cues, etc - everything i've heard from my coaches.

the biggest question i have with this type of training is, why?

if a linearly periodized program + keen eye for technique three times a week takes you to intermediate level (275-300 sinclair), then a percentage based program + keen eye for technique four-five times a week for 2-3 hour sessions takes you to a 350 sinclair, WHY WOULD ANYONE PROGRAM THIS WAY UNTIL THEY HAVE A 350 sinclair?

the program clearly works for advanced lifters (and interestingly, clearly does not work at the highest levels without the drugs - recent turk and bulgarian teams??) but until then, there is no reason to put this kind of time into training when it is clearly not necessary.

if anything looking at the people that are trying this right now, it proves the point against this program for UNSUPERVISED UNTRAINED individuals. where "untrained" means "not yet possessing great technical prowess". cracky, for example. dude, how it has been possibly compatible with your life to do as many sessions as you have thus far is amazing, and impresses me immensely. however, please, consider that you snatch 80k weighing 80k. you don't need this program right now. you need broz's coaching eye, but probably not the programming.
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Old 05-08-2010, 09:51 AM   #4
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I actually started squatting 5 days a week because of what I read from this guy. He did seem very arrogant though, the way he spoke about his methods compared to others.
That's interesting.
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Old 05-08-2010, 10:04 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Maiar View Post
I actually started squatting 5 days a week because of what I read from this guy. He did seem very arrogant though, the way he spoke about his methods compared to others.
That's interesting.
We had a thread on this forum about Broz. Broz did come here, but threw around quite a few insults so I pulled the thread down. It's a shame because we could all have learned about the differences between powerlifting and Olympic style training.
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Old 05-08-2010, 10:08 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by BendtheBar View Post
We had a thread on this forum about Broz. Broz did come here, but threw around quite a few insults so I pulled the thread down. It's a shame because we could all have learned about the differences between powerlifting and Olympic style training.
It is. It's a shame how intelligent debate often degenerates into insults. His methods were really interesting though.
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Old 05-08-2010, 10:14 AM   #7
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One of the key aspects we had been discussing were "eccentrics". Olympic lifters don't have to constantly train with endless heavy eccentrics (they can drop the weight), so in that sense training isn't equally as taxing as constant powerlifting back squat eccentrics.

Anyway, my main points were always:

A) Learn your own body first before you try "too much too soon."

B) Crazy volume is not the only way for all lifters.

I'm willing to learn, and to debate these topics.
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Old 05-08-2010, 10:23 AM   #8
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Yeah I agree.
I honestly can't see a one size fits all approach to training. From what I've experienced so far power lifting basically takes years of trying this and that and seeing what works for you and what doesn't. I'm not sure anyone has the perfect training style.
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