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Old 03-01-2010, 02:13 PM   #1
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Default Advice/Input of workout plan

Right So I'm starting up a self drawn workout regime based off Norman Fey's workout plan that looks something like this:

The following is the gist of the routine, however it is subject to change both permanently (as per your advice) and transiently (contingent on my wills and whims when I'm actually at the gym).

1.) Clean & Press with a barbell – Do 12 reps and make each clean a dead-hang clean. Breathe as deeply as possible before cleaning and when pressing. - Followed by a set of 15 pullovers

2.) Bench press - Probably some moderate rep/set range contingent on how I feel, finishing off with a triple drop set.

3.) Dips (targeting triceps) – 2 sets until failure

4.) Barbell Curl + Press– 12 reps. x2 sets

5.) Hise Shrug - 20 reps

6.) Bent over row/Upright row; super-set + rest-pause style (This I might drop one depending on how long I'm taking or just put one of the exercises at the end of the workout if I lack the vitality.

7.) Lateral Raise on a bench – 20 reps with deep breathing on each rep. (perhaps I'll mix in some instinct training (if that's what it's called) and vary directionality and power to keep it fresh.

8.) Deadlift – 20 reps. Breathe in as you raise the weight and out when you let the weight down, followed with a set of light pullovers.

9.) Breathing Squat (followed by pullovers) (followed by a triple drop set of calf presses)– Using Body weight until absolute failure (question here lies in the fact that I'm inured to doing much more than my body weight do I just take the standard approach 10 squats and than employ deep breathing, or should I extend my original bout to what would be my actual maximum and then continue from their.) (or... should I just go with full weight?)

10) Weight, or Drop set Chin-ups/ Pull-ups

11)Super set of Leg Extensions/Leg Curls 2 sets

12)Triple Drop Sets on these 2 super-sets: Tricep Extension->Close grip bench press and Incline Dumbell Curls->Underhand Pull-ups.

Now I'd be shooting for doing this 3 times a week, with about an hour (including a 5-10 minute warmup) allotted to the actual workout. I'm not 100% on how the timing will work out, but I'm usually flexible and can compensate/adjust on demand. Ontop of this, I will be alternating a very brief cardio session (15 mins approximately) of boxing/running (both to the tune of intervals) 6 days a week sans sunday (my universal rest day) in addition to some high intensity ab/core work on days off from the gym). I do realize that this looks like a bit much at a cursory glance, but I haven't had time to fine tune it and such as of yet.

Now I just basically pilled in everything that I've reaped rewards from in the past and what I've been meaning to try out. At current, I'm at about 6 foot and some change, 210 pounds, 19 and a half years old and have been working out with some directionality for about 1 year a 3 months (I started at 165 pounds being what I'd considered a pretty balanced endo/mesomorph). Ultimately my goals are about 50% strength 50% mass, but I've never gone on a full body plan before so I wanted to get some input before embarking. So, if you see any fatal pitfalls and contradictions or are inclined to suggest a different plan altogether I'd be much appreciative.

Oh I guess I should put a word about my diet, I've never had a problem with being malnourished so to speak- If I'm hungry, I eat. Typically I consume 3 sold meals a day as it's what my bodies accustomed to (if I eat too many more It comes out essentially the same way it comes in if you catch my drift), some snakes, and perhaps a protein shake- I want to emphasize again I'm not worried about diet as it has never been a limiting factor in me before. What I am moderately trepid of is getting substantial sleep- currently I'm off all supplements except for pure unadulterated protein powder simply because if I ingest stimulants in conjunction with working out I'm prone to hyperadrenalism and a good nights sleep becomes about as likely as a puritan church handing out free abortions. Despite my diets lack of these supplements I actually was surprised to notice no difference in my gains over the last couple of months but, anyway I'm just prattling on right now but I'm very interested in hearing everyone's input and such.
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Old 03-01-2010, 02:23 PM   #2
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Did I read it right that you eat snakes?







Anyhow...can't give you much advice on full body as I've never done it. I'm sure I'll have advice as the thread progresses...

Just browsing your workout... It made me sweat just to read it. Looks pretty intense - and an hour may not do it.

I would like more on your goals. You say 50% strength/muscle. But specifically, what does that mean? What are you going for really? Does physique matter? How lean do you want to be? How much muscle you going for? How much strength?

Either way, glad to have you here and glad you're moving foward with your thinking and efforts.
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Old 03-01-2010, 02:26 PM   #3
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Welcome to the forum MB. Here are my thoughts:

I like the 3 day a week fullbody approach. 20 rep sets of deadlifts are very effective, but they are also very taxing. Have you ever performed them before? My primary reason for asking is to see how the impact you from a soreness standpoint.

Squats - I want to not misunderstand you...are you doing them with body weight, or the calf raises with bodyweight? i assume just the calf raises? If using weight, I find that it can take me weeks to work up to a 20 rep set with any weight. Some are lucky and can hit a 20 rep set out of the gate. If you've never performed them before, I wouldn't try using a 10RM at the beginning. I would go lighter and feel the set out.

I think overall you have a good set of exercises. But, the volume of work in combination with 20 rep sets of squats and deadlifts each day will probably be too much. I would consider starting with a lighter split, using the same exercises, and maybe do only one 20 rep set per day. Squats - deadlift-squats. Or squats - deadlifts - front squats.

You mentioned that you have never been on a full body before. From my understand, it's better to start small and "grow" into them, so to speak - if this makes sense?
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Old 03-01-2010, 02:54 PM   #4
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@Folk Prophet: When I can't find any hot sauce for my babies.
Time and Form Will be my focuses, yah I realize that I'll be lifting a crap load less weight than usually but with something along the lines of this intensity A. I'd rather not sustain any additional downtime from unnecessary injuries and B. I can always add the weight again latter. To elucidate my statement about wanting 50% mass and 50% strength - I'm not looking to be a power lifter, I'm not looking to be a body builder- I just want to get bigger, and stronger with a fairly concrete and toned frame (ie. I have a six pack which I'd like to keep). My rational behind this is that I know from experience that I can loose weight while I gain strength (I went from 100lb dumbbles to 140lb on BP in this fashion) while I lost 5-10 pounds in the process, ultimately I was disapointed though because I didn't gain much in terms of muscle mass.

@BendtheBar
20 rep dead-lifts are something I'm completely new too, though I typically go for about 10 off a box (to allow myself to go deeper)- deadlifts have always been a mental feat for me anyway, if I need to do 20 at a reasonable weight than I'll get it done. In terms of soreness I generally only get sore on them after returning from a long lapse in using them or simply going all out a fixating on deadlifts during a single workout.. Recently I revitalized my entire strategy and have attributed a high concentration to using proper form with each technique, so yes my plan is to start of a weight that is not particularly. What I was implying when I said I've never done full-body before was that I never picked up a static routine for a full-body, recently I've been combining muscle groups to try to acclimate myself to what I might be experiencing.

The squats I've be a very big advocate of squats every since I started, I used to run 13 miles a day in my prime so I always had a good foundation in that particular aspect (as to breathing squats, I've been doing them for a little more than half a year, and have tried multiple variations in terms of volume). Calve presses I would be doing with my typical weight, but the squat I was considering doing body weight in respect to the fact that it might compress my ribcage as I was reading (but then again I'm doing hise-shrugs which are essentially the same thing except i'm basically mandated to do it above my body weight to get any intensity out of it- kinda countradicting my previous point, nay?).

Oh yah, I definitely feel you on spliting the deadlifts and squats (I've never felt comfortable on front squats though, would you say that they're important??); theres probably just so much strain I can take in a single day (perhaps I'll omit the drop sets until it start's getting 'easy' -_-).

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Old 03-01-2010, 03:13 PM   #5
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I've been doing full body routines for the past 3 months and will keep doing them for a while yet. I've been attacking it a little different tho as I incorporate some cardio type stuff.

It's the fittest I've ever looked / felt.

Couple of points:

Front Squats - I think you should do them they are also great for your core muscles. Just start light and work on form and build it up from there.

It looks a lot for one session to be done three times a week, however give it a run and see how it feels. But you may want to consider breaking that up into an A / B type plan and run it as A/B/A one week followed by B/A/B the next.

If you keep it as one then every second workout do it in reverse just to change it up.

You've got some good stuff in there.

The best way to balance out a full body training routine is to add some multi-joint lower body exercises such as squats and deadlifts.

Combined with multi-joint upper body exercises such as bench presses, pull-ups, and bent over rows, and finished off with a couple challenging ab exercises or isolation exercises dependent on goals of course.

This type of workout has stressed pretty much every muscle in your entire body.
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Old 03-01-2010, 03:16 PM   #6
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No workout plan / training protocol / routine or whatever you want to call is worthwhile without goals. Please elaborate. Also, what is the purpose of all this breathing? And who the hell is Norman Fay?
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Old 03-01-2010, 03:19 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by ehubbard View Post
No workout plan / training protocol / routine or whatever you want to call is worthwhile without goals. Please elaborate. Also, what is the purpose of all this breathing? And who the hell is Norman Fay?
I can chime in on the breathing squats. They are another name for 20-rep squats. You basically do your 10RM for 20 reps, breathing as long as needed in between reps to regain your composure and hit another rep.
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Old 03-01-2010, 03:26 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mombow111 View Post
I know from experience that I can loose weight while I gain strength (I went from 100lb dumbbles to 140lb on BP in this fashion) while I lost 5-10 pounds in the process, ultimately I was disapointed though because I didn't gain much in terms of muscle mass.
Losing weight while gaining strength is distinctly possible. Losing weight while gaining muscle size is MUCH harder.

From what you're saying, my translation is, you want to bulk. Equating "bulk" to simply "gain muscle". But you want to clean bulk...meaning, not get fat while bulking...and you want to increase strength as you go.

Is that accurate?

In short, it sounds like while you increased in strength, you were still in a calorie deficit and so lost weight and did not gain muscle.

Solution: Up the calories. To keep lean while doing so...

Well... a few things.

Expect that you will gain some fat. It's really hard not to.

However - a few suggestions (keep in mind - this is all from the opinion of someone who's struggled with this very thing...so it's study, not experience per se I'm talking from) for 'clean' bulking.

1. Supp with BCAAs.

2. Overall eat cleanly. Meaning, eat the macronutrients you need in their purest form...avoiding extra 'junk' calories when possible.

3. Do cardio - but don't overdo it

4. Don't stress about some fat. It's part of the game if you want to put on muscle.

4. Above all, get a calorie surplus...but keep it controlled. Getting an extra 500,000 calories ain't gonna help. The body can only deal with so much. I think (correct me if I'm wrong someone) that you're looking for +500 calories to bulk... Some will vote more...but if clean bulking, you don't want too many surplus.

5. It will take time to bulk clean. It might be worth considering a 'dirty' bulk. Why? Well, put on 15 lbs of muscle in a year, then cut the fat in another year and you're where you want to be in two. Or...bulk 'clean' for the next 10 and still don't quite have what you wanted. (Lengths of time just made up here...but you get the point, right?)

I, personally, think a full body workout is a harder way to put on lean muscle. I think it's too much for one sitting and likely as not to wear you out and so you won't be hitting the weights hard enough go grow.

I also think that your reps on some things are too high. I'm not one who buys into the low rep=strength, med=muscle, high=endurance school. But I do believe that doing high reps will fatique enough to inhibit growth. I think finding a balance of fatigue and shock to the muslce is ideal. For me, that sits in the 6-12 rep range. If I do more than 12 I get to fatigued too quickly and the volume suffers.

Muscle increase is about volume increase ultimately. Volume is weight x reps. So, really, if you want to increase muscle, find a way to increase volume either by constantly upping the weight through more reps/sets or more weight.

Follow this by getting the calories you need to support the muscle growth you're looking for and you'll see results.

I would bet serious money that any success you have not reached in the past can be linked, ultimately to diet. In other words...you didn't eat enough if you didn't grow.

Hmm....I know I'm rambling on. And please keep in mind that these are my opinions and thoughts for consideration. There are lots of schools on this stuff.

Just my thoughts.

Last edited by folkprophet; 03-01-2010 at 03:30 PM.
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Old 03-01-2010, 03:38 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by ehubbard View Post
No workout plan / training protocol / routine or whatever you want to call is worthwhile without goals. Please elaborate. Also, what is the purpose of all this breathing? And who the hell is Norman Fay?
No one particularly renowned, I've just fallen into the schoolboy habit of citing when I paraphrase- the link to the article here, ripped directly from the sight http://muscleandbrawn.com/forums/art...ines-work.html - If I wanted pure mass gain I'd follow it to a T but I also want some functionality out of my gain's which is why I attempted to intensify the entire deal. My goals ultimately are quite simple and commonplace I suppose, to gain strength on my all my lifts while gaining muscle mass- intrinsically why at least 70% of the people are in the gym in the first place. In terms of progress I do such things intuitively giving myself cut-off dates to break certain plateaus and if I still flunk I redistribute my workout concentrations and incorporate new techniques to do so. In terms of motivation, I simply enjoy pushing myself to my limits and I use these short-term goals as a vehicle to do so.
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Old 03-01-2010, 03:59 PM   #10
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@Folk, heh I take a multi-vitamin daily- does that count? I'll attempt a dirty bulk then but I won't eat more than my appetite will permit (I naturally get satiated at about 3,500).

@Shaolin Do you have any tips in terms of energy? I'm used to being utterly exhausted from some of the **** I've done (tabata anyone?) but I was wondering if it might be benificial to do a slight carb load before I hit the gym.
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