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Old 12-07-2011, 11:54 PM   #81
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To preface this, we're covering a discussion that probably you and I and certainly the ILC has covered many, many, many times before

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I think EVERYBODY can get better. But that includes the elite. And they get better even faster. That's why only about 1% of football players make it to the pros. Life (and genetics) just aint fair, but it is what it is.
Sure and that is a fair point and one that has been echoed many times, but the genetics argument is too black and white for my liking. I prefer shades of grey.

1) Are we to say the guys who are at the top 1% of football players are all genetic wonders? Is there a scale of genetic talent? The inaccuracy and generalisation just doesn't sit right with me, y'know?

2) Where does training fit into the mix? Do we really buy into the fact that the pro's would gain on any programme, that they gain despite their training not because of it. Then why is it that so, so many of them do in fact gain despite their training. Again generalisations.

3) It has even be said that the pro's would gain better on low volume training for the masses. Does anyone really genuinely still believe that?

My take is that it isn't a simple as a matter of 'Us Vs Them'. Us being the genetypically typical and Them being the pro's. There is a scale of genetic potential which will determine inevitable outcomes, no-one denies this. Even the term genetics covers a huge range of qualities and attributes which will effect outcome.

Alongside that scale we have the 'other factors' which we can control. Diet, Sleep (to a certain extend!) and general R&R. That will also effect outcome on a weekly basis.

As well as that we have age, personality, psychology, sociology and the entire range of additional factors which are going to effect outcome on a weekly basis.

When we actually think about it. We really, really can't generalise it into 'some will make it' and 'some won't'.

And y'know, you won't know 'till you try.
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Old 12-08-2011, 12:20 AM   #82
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I think [a lot] people fall on two sides of the McRobert Hardaginer issue. On one side you have the guys that use it as their flag and always try to get by with the least ammount of work for fear of overtraining. Then you have the guys that get angry and have a need to prove McRobert wrong; "Nobody's going to tell me I can't be the best." Maybe it's age or maybe it's experience, but I fall in the middle of the argument. I don't see it as an "Us vs Them" thing. I see it as everybody has a chance to be the best they can be, just get out there and get better. I don't use my genetics as an excuse, I use it as a guide. I am always trying to improve my conditioning to increase my work capacity. Always trying to increase the volume and frequesncy. But always keeping an eye on how that volume and frequency is effecting me, adjusting as needed, and watching for ways to keep the trend upwards. Sure, I will never be a proffessional football player or a nationally ranked powerlifter, but I bet I can rope steers better than most of them and teach Algebra better than most of them. Play to your strengths

Last edited by Off Road; 12-08-2011 at 08:24 AM.
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Old 12-08-2011, 08:40 AM   #83
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1) Are we to say the guys who are at the top 1% of football players are all genetic wonders? Is there a scale of genetic talent? The inaccuracy and generalisation just doesn't sit right with me, y'know?.
Maybe not genetic wonders, but certainly guys who posess certain natural [or genetic] qualities. You can't be 5'6" and play an offensive line position, you need to be big and quick on your feet. You aren't going to play center in the NBA if you are under 6' tall; I don't care how good a shot you are or how quick you are, you're going to get pushed around by those monsters and out-rebounded under the basket. And lastly, I don't think everybody is meant to be able to squat 1,000 lbs raw, no matter how badly you want it or how hard you tain. If it were possible for everybody to do it, we'd see more people doing it.

I refer you to the C&P blog where the author shows Tom Platz's legs and states that Tom worked his butt off to get legs like that. I don't doubt that Tom worked super hard and I give him all the credit in the world for his efforts. But you have other big names of that era that worked equally as hard and had nowhere near that kind of development. He had a gift and he worked his butt off to exploit it.

Last edited by Off Road; 12-08-2011 at 08:45 AM.
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