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Old 01-19-2011, 12:53 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by Carl1174 View Post
Me too Steve, but having a whole new direction and knowing that i have a lot to learn has really spurred me on, when i must admit my interest and motivation were at a bit of a low...

Really glad I found this site tbh, cos without it, you and glwanabe I think i may have been ready to chuck it all in....

Carl.
Carl you can't chuck it all in. You've been one of my biggest supporters since day 1 on the other site. I owe alot to you and a few others.
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Old 01-19-2011, 12:54 PM   #182
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I'm glad you didn't throw in the towel. I've done it several times in the past during my younger years.

Like I tell my wife, exercise should be fun. I try to keep it that way for myself. Sometimes this industry gets too serious and complicated and OCD, and creates burdens where it should be refreshing energy and joy into lives.
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Old 01-19-2011, 01:00 PM   #183
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I'm glad you didn't throw in the towel. I've done it several times in the past during my younger years.

Like I tell my wife, exercise should be fun. I try to keep it that way for myself. Sometimes this industry gets too serious and complicated and OCD, and creates burdens where it should be refreshing energy and joy into lives.

YEA BUDDY!!!
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Old 01-19-2011, 02:18 PM   #184
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Great updates GL. A big thumbs up on progression. That seems like a fairly trivial topic, but from my experience it can be one of the most difficult topics for trainees to understand.
Agreed. I'll post up a few more thoughts on progression shortly.

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Originally Posted by BendtheBar View Post
Absolutely. Hop on board. We would love to know your thoughts.

We are trying hard to re-explore a frontier that was abandoned by Weider and gang, and I personally have a lot to learn and look forward to your thoughts on your program.

I fully believe that we are missing a valuable way to train due to media, and marketing over the years. I can't tell you how often I see, "Trainers" call fullbody a beginner only type of programming.

There is a lot of research that contradicts what is being peddled to the masses as the supposedly, "modern" way of training. I shake my head when people talk about the, "modern split". Split training has been around since the mid 1950's. It is not modern at all.




Off topic...

In general, I believe fullbody workouts are much more evolutionary in nature (as opposed to the program hopping mindset), and for this reason they tend to be less of a headache for me, as I am generally not much of a program hopper (except for 2010).

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Thanks BT. We're glad you and guys (and gals) like Carl, MC, 5kg, Abs and the like are over here with us.

I have a lot to learn about fullbodies as well, and still feel like a rookie.
I still have a lot to learn about fullbody. The more I dig, and study, the more I just love this style of training. It is not easy, which is one reason I love it so much. It is a challenge, and I feel like I have really accomplished something at the end of a session.

There is a definate difference as to how your approach a split versus a fullbody. Once you understand how to work a fullbody, and have settled into it, it just feels right. Especially after you have started to see some progression, and can see how everything fits together.

It's great that some more experienced lifters are joining in on this. I'm really looking forward to your comments as you work into the program. It will be interesting to see the progression as you work into the intermediate aspects of the next level of the routine.

Last edited by glwanabe; 01-19-2011 at 02:55 PM.
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Old 01-19-2011, 02:50 PM   #185
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Default Some thoughts on progression

I added this content to the first post on progression this morning. One of the most common things people remark about is how sore they are from such little work.

I always tell people to start out with very light weights to begin, and slowly build up until they have established good working numbers to build from. These numbers are always lower than there previous worksets on a split routine. This is a decieving aspect of the volume of work you are actually doing.

Another thread this week also hit on a what I'am talking about.

The basic scheme of a 3x8-12

A 3x8=24 reps pr day, or 72 reps per week
a 3x12= 36 reps pr day, or 108 reps per week

Thats a difference of 36 reps from the low to the high end of the rep spread.

Now lets look at the math of poundage moved.

1x8x140=1120
1x8x175=1400
1x8x210=1680

4200lbs moved for one squat session. adding 1 rep on Wed, and Friday would net.

1x9x140=1260
1x10x140=1400

So, for the week you moved a total of, 13,020lbs for you squat sessions.

Thats a lot of work, and is the bottom of the rep range. Go to the top of the rep range and the weeks work is huge!


3x12x140=5040
3x12x175=6300
3x12x210=7560

Totals out at, 18,900lbs moved for the week. Just for your squat sets.

Add in all the other work you do during a session, and for the week, and you can see just how much weight you are moving. It is a lot!

I have also mentioned to a few people about running the program as a straight 2x12 set rep scheme.

This scheme is viable, and a valuable way to work into the fullbody approach.
It keeps your intensity a little lower, but still has you doing a lot of work.

For anybody that would run the program that way, it would really only be done until you have built up the CNS conditioning to run the full 3x8-12 scheme.

There is so much that can be done with fullbody work. The intermediate version of the Reeves is just one example of an evolution of the program. There are a few other ways it could be worked as well. I'll address those ways in later post.



Quote:
For a progressive set weight scheme you can build reps a little differently.
Here is an example of how you could work a progressive scheme.

Woud look like:

1x12x135
1x12x165
1x8x205, subsequent sessions:
1x9x205, 1x10x205, 1x11x205, 1x12x205

1x12x135 no change
1x8x170 added weight dropped reps
1x8x210 added weight dropped reps

1x12x135 no change
1x9x170 reps climbing
1x8x210 hold steady

1x12x135 no change
1x10x170 reps climbing
1x8x210 hold steady

1x12x135 no change
1x11x170 reps climbing
1x8x210 hold steady

1x12x135 no change
1x12x170 top of rep range reached!
1x8x210 reps start to build next session
1x9x210, 1x10x210, 1x11x210, 1x12x210

2nd and 3rd sets add weight, and drop reps when 3rd set reaches 12 reps.


Using this progressive scheme I would build the sets till the weights looked liked this.

1x12x135
1x12x185 hold at this weight for 2nd set when reached.
1x12x225 when this is completed all sets reset.

1x8x140
1x8x190
1x8x140
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Old 01-19-2011, 03:37 PM   #186
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3x12x140=5040
3x12x175=6300
3x12x210=7560

Totals out at, 18,900lbs moved for the week. Just for your squat sets.

Good post. I want to also put that in perspective, through the lens of a split. If you squatted only once a week, and used...say 200 pounds for all sets, you would need to perform about 95 reps in one day.

That's about...200 x 8 sets x 12 reps.

That's one brutal squat session.

Remember this when once considers the volume to be light, which often is the perception because of the lower daily volume.
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Old 01-19-2011, 07:17 PM   #187
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So, as I was saying earlier today about how fullbody training is misunderstood by those who should know better, I offer this example. The names have been removed to protect the ignorant.

My post where I quoted BTB, and added some comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by BendtheBar View Post
Absolutely. Hop on board. We would love to know your thoughts.

We are trying hard to re-explore a frontier that was abandoned by Weider and gang, and I personally have a lot to learn and look forward to your thoughts on your program.

I fully believe that we are missing a valuable way to train due to media, and marketing over the years. I can't tell you how often I see, "Trainers" call fullbody a beginner only type of programming.

There is a lot of research that contradicts what is being peddled to the masses as the supposedly, "modern" way of training. I shake my head when people talk about the, "modern split". Split training has been around since the mid 1950's. It is not modern at all.




Off topic...

In general, I believe fullbody workouts are much more evolutionary in nature (as opposed to the program hopping mindset), and for this reason they tend to be less of a headache for me, as I am generally not much of a program hopper (except for 2010).

Authority Figure 1
Quote:
Like any method of training, once the body has adapted then you have to change. Like it says in the in the posts bendthebar has quoted "I don't always use a three day full body split, but at least 4 months out of my training year is done full body style. It is also the best way to train when calories are lowest, like pre-contest"

Full body routines are ok for beginners or for a change, but not for building, it was used by the old time bodybuilders, but is rarely used by bodybuilders these days as a main method of training

Ignorant authority figure 2
Quote:
Apologies in advance, but I tend to agree that once you get through the phase of your training wherein your body is aclimating itself to resistance training, (6 months or so for most people), this routines is not enough to give you gains and you should probably move toward something mopre of a 3 or 4 day split.

It is sad that these people are giving advice with how little they know. The workout in question only needed to have 1 more set added after a few months of training to bring it fully inline with the things we have talked about today.

Last edited by BendtheBar; 01-19-2011 at 07:48 PM.
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Old 01-20-2011, 05:16 AM   #188
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Just finished my first 'complete session' of the Classic Reeves (so thats one entire week). This was the hardest thing to get my head around the fact that the weeks work is the 'session' as a previous firm believer of the split scheme it was an alien though to have the weeks work as the session as the split just takes each day and focuses on battering the muscle for that day. This is the beauty of a fullbody and the essence IMO of why it will work so well. You are training the body as a unit as a whole as it is meant to work. In the real world you dont just use the arms/back/legs or any other part, you use your body. The full body routine embraces that and works with it, rather than against it. Even with the limited number of isolation moves thay have there place, but are part of a bigger picture, or a total ideal. Not 'Im gonna curl myself into oblivion cos i want big guns'. it takes the body, works it all hard, over three session to give you your complete workout. That i think is the crux of the matter and why they are successful. Everything gets worked in proportion to eveything else. the body wants to grow as a unit, so work it as one.

As I said previously I was almost ready to throw in the towel on training untill this site, BtB, GL and this routine came along. I did however have some big questions to ask of the routine, and of myself, without answers i knew it would be all over. My first concern with the routine was that i was 'only' doing 3 sets for legs and other body parts But it is actually 9 sets of squats over the complete session. i have never done 9 sets of squats before. As everyone will concur they are the best leg movement, so why do a split and do 3 sets of squats, but then do 6 sets of other substandard exercises like the leg press etc... Same with chest i was worried that the chest wasnt gonna get worked hard enough (especially as it is the part i want most growth in), but again not only do i do 9 sets of bench, but I also do 15 sets of dips (arent the dips the 'upper body squat') you see where i am going here...

The volume is enough if worked to maximum capacity. FACT

The second question was 'well i have always done splits, all the big guys in the gym do split so they must be the best'.. ( I have even been told by a moderator of another site that 'fullbodies are useless if your goal is muscle gain')... So i was a little concerned that maybee i wouldnt get the size gains i so desperatly want. One week on the fullbody is enough to convince me splits arent the be-all and end-all of growth. The progresion is such that you could continue just on the basic classic routine for a while and still get fantastic gains and push yourself further and further. Plus there are numerous examples of it working, and working well for natural trainees, why should i be any different ?

If you are progressing and eating then you will grow. FACT.

Finally as someone that has swapped and changed routines of late , looking for that special something that will get be good gains, and becoming bored quickly with everything that i tried. Would this just be another fad that i would get bored of. Honestly though its only a week in to it so obviously my enthusiasm is high, but I cant see how you could get boerd of it. It is so adaptable and evolutionary that cahnges can be made without ruining the crux of the routine, you dont have to change all the days you work around or the split that you are on to get gains, you can tweak and add bits, take bits out etc, but the heart of the routine will still be the same.

You wont get bored on this routne, you cant get bored on this routine. FACT.

Its almost like the routine has a life of its own and I am sharing its journey. It has been around for decades and it knows what its doing. Believe in it and trust it, dont mess with it or think you can change it for the better. It has answered all my questions and then some, it has reignited a spark that i though was gone forever and has me aching and battered in all the right ways, but still has left me wanting, needing more.

Carl.

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Old 01-20-2011, 09:03 AM   #189
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Carl this is a very good writeup. I might want to pull that down and sticky it..

In fact, I am thinking about starting a Full Body sub-forum as well. Thoughts on this?
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Old 01-20-2011, 09:22 AM   #190
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Carl this is a very good writeup. I might want to pull that down and sticky it..

In fact, I am thinking about starting a Full Body sub-forum as well. Thoughts on this?
Cheers Steve, glad you like it. Just my thoughts after the first week. Hopefully if anyone else is thinking the same questions and/or pondering on whether to start one or not it could help put their minds at ease

Well there is a lot of people running full bodies on here and getting good gains, it could be nice to have all the info in one place definitely.

If you sticky the post then PLEASE edit my spelling/grammer etc lol

Carl.
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