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Old 05-16-2013, 03:57 PM   #451
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I go to the gym 6 days per week. My split is as follows

Legs
Chest and tri's
Back bi's and shoulders
Rinse and repeat. I will then take one day off and go right back into it. However I have started doing arms everyday after my normal split. Is this just a one way ticket to snap city or with the arm muscles being smaller muscles would it actually help?
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Old 05-18-2013, 07:04 PM   #452
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BBOD,

How quickly does a deadlift generally progress? I feel like i've finally got my form down, focusing on thorasic extension, pushing through legs etc, but it's still pretty weak, and i'm struggling with any working set over 225 and over. I can literally bench press that as my 1RM.

Judging by the (basic) information given, any idea on what's letting me down, or am i just expecting too much weight too fast?
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Old 05-19-2013, 11:50 AM   #453
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Originally Posted by Weaponx25 View Post
I go to the gym 6 days per week. My split is as follows

Legs
Chest and tri's
Back bi's and shoulders
Rinse and repeat. I will then take one day off and go right back into it. However I have started doing arms everyday after my normal split. Is this just a one way ticket to snap city or with the arm muscles being smaller muscles would it actually help?
How much volume are you doing each day?

It's not snap city, but you need to be eating like a horse and praying to Crom that tendinitis doesn't visit your elbows.
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Old 05-19-2013, 11:53 AM   #454
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BBOD,

How quickly does a deadlift generally progress? I feel like i've finally got my form down, focusing on thorasic extension, pushing through legs etc, but it's still pretty weak, and i'm struggling with any working set over 225 and over. I can literally bench press that as my 1RM.

Judging by the (basic) information given, any idea on what's letting me down, or am i just expecting too much weight too fast?
A few questions that will help me help you.

1) How much has it progressed the last 6 months?
2) What is your height, weight, and age?
3) What program are you using?
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Old 05-19-2013, 02:26 PM   #455
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How much volume are you doing each day?

It's not snap city, but you need to be eating like a horse and praying to Crom that tendinitis doesn't visit your elbows.



I am eating more than I ever have in my life. I eat 6 to 8 meals a day. Complex carbs and protein with broccoli every meal with a protein shake with creatine post workout.

As far as volume. I am doing 5x5 as heavy as I can go to get to the 5th set and make it as far through that as I can. I do 2 exercises for each muscle group (chest: bench press then incline bench. Tri's close grip bench and then skull crushers and so on). Then after that I would do 3x10 or to failure on preacher curls the repeat with reverse curls. Next day I would do dead lift pull-ups bent over row then dumbells curls hammer curls(all 5x5) and then cable curls to failure. Then 3x10 on tricep extensions and dips to failure.
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Old 05-19-2013, 05:00 PM   #456
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Some deadlift questions.

Do you train sumo's?
Do touch and go deadlifts ever have a place in training?
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Old 05-20-2013, 02:00 AM   #457
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Some deadlift questions.

Do you train sumo's?
Do touch and go deadlifts ever have a place in training?
I have trained sumos. I think a case can be made for training both when building a strength base. Some guys want to have a defined answer as to whether sumos or conventionals are better for them. My opinion is to take 6 months and run them both at the same time. get crazy strong and see what happens.

As far as touch and go, no. They only add the potential for sloppy reps. Not a fan at all.
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Old 05-20-2013, 02:02 AM   #458
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I am eating more than I ever have in my life. I eat 6 to 8 meals a day. Complex carbs and protein with broccoli every meal with a protein shake with creatine post workout.
How is your fat intake? Be careful eating light on fat. Not saying you are, but you want to make sue you're not, especially with demanding training.

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As far as volume. I am doing 5x5 as heavy as I can go to get to the 5th set and make it as far through that as I can. I do 2 exercises for each muscle group (chest: bench press then incline bench. Tri's close grip bench and then skull crushers and so on). Then after that I would do 3x10 or to failure on preacher curls the repeat with reverse curls. Next day I would do dead lift pull-ups bent over row then dumbells curls hammer curls(all 5x5) and then cable curls to failure. Then 3x10 on tricep extensions and dips to failure.
Sounds reasonable.

Just listen to your body. It's a long road. There is working hard, and working smart. Sometimes the best thing for our training is to get a life outside the gym.
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Old 05-20-2013, 03:03 AM   #459
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I have trained sumos. I think a case can be made for training both when building a strength base. Some guys want to have a defined answer as to whether sumos or conventionals are better for them. My opinion is to take 6 months and run them both at the same time. get crazy strong and see what happens.

As far as touch and go, no. They only add the potential for sloppy reps. Not a fan at all.
I asked because I watched a Brandon Lilly vid where he said you should train both styles so you have the other to fall back on in a pinch. Seemed like darn good advice. The touch and go question was more of a put the nail in the coffin question. Thx.
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Old 05-20-2013, 03:25 AM   #460
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Default high frequency

SCROLL THROUGH STYDY IN THE BOTTOM IF YOU WISH NOT TO READ, LENGTHY
Hi beast! I just got my first 200kg squat with the following program, gained 20 kg to my squat in just 3 weeks, probably from more effective motor unit recruitment? Do you approve of high frequency training with incorporated deloads or will i burn out in a matter of months. Can I make progress for, lets say 6 months? Jim wendler states in his book that you should use the program with caution, whats your thoughts?

The program:
Monday:
Squat 5/3/1
DB Bench Press 3x10-15
DB Rows 3x10

Tuesday:
Squat 65%x3, 75%x3, 85%x3
DB Incline Press 3x10-15
Chinups 3x10

Wednesday:
Squat 75%x3, 85%x3, 95%x1
Bench Press 5/3/1
Chin/Pullups 3x10

Thursday:
Squat 65%x3, 75%x3, 85%x3
Incline Press 3x10-15
Chinups 3x10

Friday:
Squat 75%x3, 85%x3, 95%x1
Press 5/3/1
Deadlift 5/3/1

Sun/sat off
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
STUDY

Saw a post a while back where a guy gave reference to the norwegian frequency project in this forum in witch you replied.

"the norwegian powerlifting team had done a research about how often you should train.
they took a group (27 licenced lifters) and divided them into two.

one group trained 3 times in a week

the other group 6 times in a week.

the volume of their training was equal.

when they first started training, the 3 times/week group was an average of 2.5lb stronger in squat than the group that trained 6 times/week.

After 3 months:

the group that trained 6 time/week was now an average of 22lb stronger in the squat than the other group !!!!!

all of the lifters was monitored and helped with their training during the experiment.

it is hoped that an articel and data from the experiment will be published this year in a international paper."

If you like to read the study here it is or just scroll past it folks:

"The results of frequency project starts to become clear - and so far they show not only clear trends, the results are statistically significant. Bjørnar Brende Smestad participated in the project and has here written a preliminary report.

The study was conducted in the fall, where a large group of powerlifters (27 athletes participated in pre-testing) were collected at the Sports Academy in Oslo for different pretest before they were divided into two training groups: a group that would train three sessions a week and a that would train six sessions a week - both groups performed identically weekly training volume. After a training period of three months, volunteers gathered again for re-testing - and it is thus the data from re-tests that are now starting to become clear.

Testing athletes went through was twofold:

Strength Tester, where strength was tested equipment freely in the squat, bench press and deadlift. In addition, it was carried isometric (static force) tests, by allowing athletes run max in kneekstensjon against a load cell at different knevinkler. Suppleness were also tested using a force platform.

Objective anthropometric tests:

* MRI of the thigh (change in muscle cross-sectional area of ​​the quadriceps)
* Inbody 720 - analysis of body composition
Ultrasound of M. vastus lateralis - here, changes in the thickness of the muscle and the fiber angle (which can indicate change in muscle length) tested. Some participants tested in a so called DEXA machine, which is the most reliable analysis of body composition.

In addition to these tests, practitioners have also gone through a diet record of 4 days which is analyzed by nutrition researchers at Olympiatoppen.

It was Alexander Church Teig and NSF who initiated the study, and were joined by Truls Raastad at the Sports Academy, as project manager. Furthermore, Ina Garth from NIH and Olympic top with to implement a cost-registration of participants.

By the results made public at this stage there is little doubt which of the two groups that received the best progress. Based on all parameters had six days the group better progress in all tests except the resilience test. In most tests was the difference statistically significant.

As an example from the tests can be seen in the overall strength of the athletes in the squat: At boot 3 day group 1 kg stronger in the squat than the 6 day group. After the training intervention, this ratio is reversed and 6 day group were on average was 10 kg in the squat stronger than the 3 day group. This despite the fact that the 3-day group had an average of a gain of more than 5% during the training period.

Together both groups increased 275 kg in squat, 217.5 kg in bench press and 235 kg in the deadlift - so strength wise, this is like a top powerlifter on the team.

With these results as a basis, there is little doubt that this group was most effective to train with high frequency. This can be said on the basis of both groups trained exactly as much in a week, but 6-day group had the largest improvement.

In practice, this indicates that if you reduce the amount of each exercise in terms of what is normal (for Norwegian powerlifters), it appears that the muscle recovers faster, and you again can stimulate muscle (with training) after a short rest period . It appears that the main effect is that it increases the number of sequences of stimuli (training / breakdown) and adaptation (recovery) within a given period, thus greater progress. 6 day group had twice as many training sessions and have had about twice as much progress in the squat. The groups, in other words had about as much success as. workout, but the 6-day group had twice as many training sessions and hence twice as much progress within the same time period.

Furthermore, an investigation on how long the effects last, out of the three moons that were used in this study, and perhaps the most interesting - how do different exercise frequency affect athletes who are closer to their genetic potential than these athletes were? A different approach should be researched, how much stimuli that actually required to initiate adaptation (growth) per workout and how often it can be done. Will be able to benefit from distributing the workout even more weekly sessions?

It should be noted that all athletes ever sent weekly reports of completed training. These reports were carefully monitored to keep track of such overtraining. Performers received follow both via email and phone during the entire training period. Such training should be conducted in consultation with experienced and competent trainers.

Church Teig hoping to get published the full results of the study in an international journal during this year.
All participants will soon receive a written summary of their results.
NSF and NIH also plans to have him one of results that will be open to participants of the project and all NSF-lifters. This will probably be held in conjunction with the Junior European Championships in Hamar in June, more information will be published on styrkeloft.no when approaching."

Last edited by andreaspersson; 05-20-2013 at 03:32 AM.
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