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Old 04-04-2012, 06:36 PM   #21
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I like Rippetoe much better than guys that feel the need to run others down just to build their name.
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Old 04-04-2012, 07:03 PM   #22
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He is very opinionated but if Bill Starr taught you then you will definitely get my attention.
I am doing BS 5X5 again and I love/hate that program.

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I squat high bar. Always have, always will.

Feels natural and I use it.
I squat a narrow low bar and love it with my leverages.


Onto that article-While Ripp is not the end all, be all for everyone, the man has written a proven way to strength train for beginners. He advocates getting in calories and frequently doing compound lifts. I see how this can benefit every lifter. The best training methods are and will always be a combination of different theories and opinions that you adapt to work for you at a given time. Linear progression programs are great until the point when you cant progress linearly anymore. Where that sticking point is, ranges hugely between each person. I have read guys doing SS with 600 pound squats and guys who cant progress farther than 275.
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Old 04-04-2012, 08:48 PM   #23
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Any program that gets guys up to speed quickly gets my love. Starting Strength does 3 things than magazine routines don't:

1) Focuses novices on progression.
2) Teaches them form.
3) Encourages them to eat.

It also expects results.
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Old 04-04-2012, 09:13 PM   #24
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He's one of the best, definitely. If he would just make rows a staple and make pullups a staple into his programs he'd be basically my favorite outside of Joe DeFranco and Dave Tate.
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Old 04-04-2012, 09:28 PM   #25
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He's one of the best, definitely. If he would just make rows a staple and make pullups a staple into his programs he'd be basically my favorite outside of Joe DeFranco and Dave Tate.
Are you aware that he lists both of those lifts in starting strength as useful assistance exercises and explains how to program them?
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Old 04-04-2012, 09:45 PM   #26
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Are you aware that he lists both of those lifts in starting strength as useful assistance exercises and explains how to program them?
I had not known this. At some point I thought I had read he didn't like rows for novices, and wanted them only doing power cleans. Not disputing you Josh, just hadn't heard that Ripper liked rows. I had heard he was down with pull-ups though.
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Old 04-04-2012, 10:15 PM   #27
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Are you aware that he lists both of those lifts in starting strength as useful assistance exercises and explains how to program them?
Yep. I'm also aware of how he doesn't make them a staple, and for that most people don't do them.

I'm also aware that he says only do rows if you fail to learn cleans. The two movements are not comparable. Rows should be done if you're performing bench presses.

Rows and pullups are both much more than just assistance exercises. They should be a staple anytime their opposites are staples.

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I had not known this. At some point I thought I had read he didn't like rows for novices, and wanted them only doing power cleans. Not disputing you Josh, just hadn't heard that Ripper liked rows. I had heard he was down with pull-ups though.
This is true. He has made plenty of "f*** rows" comments.

Barbell rows are only included in the 2nd edition of starting strength by the way, which to the people that own the first they don't see it.

I mentioned this earlier but pullups are lat dominant. Lats are part of the internal rotators. The external rotators and retractors of the scapula need specific work.

Most beginners already have imbalanced before they even begin to learn proper training like SS; having them bench and not row will only further the imbalances.
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Old 04-04-2012, 11:36 PM   #28
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Most beginners already have imbalanced before they even begin to learn proper training like SS; having them bench and not row will only further the imbalances.
Simmer down killer. How can someone who has never trained have an imbalance?
Anyway, in response to your post, Rippetoe says "**** rows" because he gets tired of e-experts and noobs asking him 10 times a day if they can sub PC for rows. By the way, where did you see this quote? Could you post a link?
You are a great example of my point that his responses and quotes often get taken out of context.

Just because he doesn't make the exercise a core part of the routine doesn't mean he is against it or that you can't program it (he even tells you how). I think Rip just expects people to engage there brains and figure out on there own where when and how it needs to be used in a routine.
'The entitled give it to me know the way I want it because I'm special' generation seems to struggle with being forced to think.
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Old 04-04-2012, 11:38 PM   #29
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I had not known this. At some point I thought I had read he didn't like rows for novices, and wanted them only doing power cleans. Not disputing you Josh, just hadn't heard that Ripper liked rows. I had heard he was down with pull-ups though.
I think you're right. He spells out his routine pretty clearly for rank novices. But then he goes on to give information about assistance work (including rows) and when where and how to use them as a lifter advances or needs them.
Of course the basics of starting strength is what it is.

This is just my understanding.
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Old 04-05-2012, 10:06 AM   #30
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Just because he doesn't make the exercise a core part of the routine doesn't mean he is against it or that you can't program it (he even tells you how).
Good point.
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