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Old 02-29-2012, 05:46 PM   #11
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There's also a lot of great mention of overtraining in the dual factor theory.
This is what Fazc and I are basically doing, but I would call it overreaching.

We are reaching a spillover point where rest needs to happen.
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Old 02-29-2012, 05:49 PM   #12
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I have made great gains training six days to two days a week. No matter what your personal beliefs on the subject, I thought it was funny. Thats why I posted it! I loved the "**** you and **** your elbow"! I am going back to collect stamps.
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Old 02-29-2012, 05:50 PM   #13
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This is what Fazc and I are basically doing, but I would call it overreaching.

We are reaching a spillover point where rest needs to happen.
Thats exactly what I did for my last meet. Two weeks heavy and then the third week would be dialed back. Liked it for squats but not as much for bench.
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Old 02-29-2012, 05:53 PM   #14
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I have made great gains training six days to two days a week. No matter what your personal beliefs on the subject, I thought it was funny. Thats why I posted it! I loved the "**** you and **** your elbow"! I am going back to collect stamps.
I agree. I thought it was hilarious.

And seriously though, Bell pretty much has it nailed. Overtraining isn't going to happen for 99.9% of people. Far too many people fear it when they aren't near it, if that makes sense.

It's not because they are weak, inept or undertraining. It's simply just damn hard to overtrain.
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Old 02-29-2012, 06:18 PM   #15
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This is what Fazc and I are basically doing, but I would call it overreaching.

We are reaching a spillover point where rest needs to happen.
Yeah it's probably overreaching you are going through. If you take you a good rest you'll probably be back to hitting personal records. Overreaching is like a phase 1 to actual CNS overtraining.

IMO, there can be different forms of overtraining. In this particular case people are talking about overtraining of the CNS, but what would you call it when you exercise so much that you begin to release catabolic hormones? Wouldn't that be categorized as overtraining of the endocrine system?
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Old 02-29-2012, 07:07 PM   #16
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Thanks for posting this, Mike. Funny but also something I believe firmly believe.
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Old 02-29-2012, 07:18 PM   #17
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but what would you call it when you exercise so much that you begin to release catabolic hormones?
Manual labor.

Not sure to be honest. The only overtraining I have done was CNS.
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Old 02-29-2012, 07:40 PM   #18
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It's simply just damn hard to overtrain.
I love this forum already. This is the truth, and 99.9% of other forums thinks overtraining is done by an extra set of bicep curls.
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Old 02-29-2012, 11:43 PM   #19
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I think the term is the issue. Some people use it as an excuse for sure, but that doesn't mean they don't have a real issue that is hampering them, and simply pounding away at the problem might not solve it.

For one thing, Bell is saying lift heavy S all the time, it's your job be ready any time anywhere, etc. Well, for most folks, it isn't their job. It's what they do to unwind from their 9 to 5, and maybe hope to capture some essences of their former competitive selves.

Why should I lift balls to the wall all the time? Perhaps it might make me stronger quicker, but who's to say I'm in a hurry? I add a leisurely 5 pounds a month to my total and in 5 years, I'm 300 pounds stronger and I didn't stress myself to the point of injury, etc. Maybe that's my goal, not a 500 squat in a year, and a back brace for a couple months as a kicker.

Also, I notice Aida is saying progress everyday, but he's also still young. He's only 28 now, so what does he know about lifting when you're in your 30's and 40's? Nothing. Bell seems to be older, but even he seems to say you need to periodically backoff to allow for recouperation (wave loading, periodization, whatever you want to call it).

Well, isn't that "overtraining"? If he needs to recouperate, what's he recouperating from? Too much training? Pot, meet kettle.

Just saying that I agree people will find excuses to slack off, but that doesn't mean they are slackers. They don't have the same goals/abilities/time/etc. so if they want to take their damn sweet time working up to a 500 pound squat, so what?
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Old 03-01-2012, 12:36 AM   #20
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Why should I lift balls to the wall all the time? Perhaps it might make me stronger quicker, but who's to say I'm in a hurry? I add a leisurely 5 pounds a month to my total and in 5 years, I'm 300 pounds stronger and I didn't stress myself to the point of injury, etc. Maybe that's my goal, not a 500 squat in a year, and a back brace for a couple months as a kicker.
Mike you are the textbook example of how it should be done. You ARE lifting balls to the wall. You hit PRs every week.

I don't think it's necessary for an intermediate lifter to go off the deep end. An intermediate needs reps to build muscle and tendon/ligament strength. You also need time.

With that said, you aren't progressing slowly. You hit regular PRs and this is how it should be. You are training heavy each day.

I think we need to draw a clear line between intermediate and advanced lifters. Advanced lifters have the experience, but need to get creative and train smart to keep moving forward.

A lot of times videos like this are taken out of context because they are aimed at all the wannabes, excuse-makers and grinders who are unwilling to take the appropriate steps required at their level, and who wah wah wah at everything as being "overtraining."

You are taking the right steps towards success. And believe me, seeing it IS RARE. It might be commonplace here at MAB, but it's not across the web. One needs only to step over to another forum to see armies of guys squatting 185 after 3 years and deloading every other week because their left testicle twitched during a rep.

What guys like Aita and Bell are trying to convey is a notion of what it takes to be successful. That doesn't have to involve 7 sessions a week, or pushing the gas pedal down 100% every workout.

It requires not quitting. It requires no excuses. It requires doing what's necessary to get where you want to go. Key emphasis...where you want to go.

I don't think either Bell or Aita or anyone else who is an advanced lifter would ever belittle someone who is working hard, no matter what their lifting goals.

Just because you aren't training 11 times a week doesn't mean Aita or Bell are pointing the finger at you. They aren't. They are trying to put down the nonsense belief in this industry that calls everything "overtraining!" when it's not.

Quote:
Also, I notice Aida is saying progress everyday, but he's also still young. He's only 28 now, so what does he know about lifting when you're in your 30's and 40's? Nothing. Bell seems to be older, but even he seems to say you need to periodically backoff to allow for recouperation (wave loading, periodization, whatever you want to call it).

Well, isn't that "overtraining"? If he needs to recouperate, what's he recouperating from? Too much training? Pot, meet kettle.
I think we need to take a step back here and put this in context. Fear of overtraining is the norm in this industry, in powerlifting and bodybuilding. It is extremely hard to overtrain.

Most people will never overtrain, or come close to overtraining. The fear of overtraining simply isn't realistic as it is viewed by the average lifter. I believe this is part of what Bell and Aita are speaking to. They are not claiming that you don't have to manage stress or fatigue. Every lifter does.

The concept they are putting down is the notion that it's so easy to overtrain if you do one little thing that's outside the box. There is this insane fear in lifting that squatting 3-4x a week might kill you!

Mike, you could squat 5-6x a week if you managed fatigue and structured your program properly. Would you be overtraining? No. Would 99% of lifters think you were an overtraining idiot? Yes. They would stand and wait for your head to explode.

Think of it this way Mike...I could squat 6 days a week, 52 days a year if I structured my program correctly and say did only 5 singles at 85% each day. I probably wouldn't need a deload.

Yet if I posted that routine on BB.com as a random, soulless nobody I would get pummeled. But I could train every day because I manage my stress/fatigue. I also am taking time to building volume and frequency.

Part of this is adaptability. The body can adapt to a lot. A lot more than people suspect, primarily the people screaming overtraining every day on forums.

Overtraining is usually presented like:

"You can't squat twice a week, that's overtraining."
"You can't deadlift heavy each week, that's overtraining."
"Fullbody workouts are overtraining."

This isn't anywhere near the reality of what real overtraining looks like. I've reached a stage twice in 26 years where I felt like I overtrained by the text book definition.

Certainly there are times when I overreach, am fatigued, didn't train smart or was unlucky and picked up strains, or am just mentally tired of the grind.

I just think we need to remember how overtraining is framed by Average Joe on Average Forum. I believe this is what these guys are mocking.

Sorry for the long ramble. Bell and Aita and every other advanced lifter have to manage stress. In doing so they learned that the concept of overtraining as it is perceived by the 99% is light years away from the reality.

Hey, I once believed squatting 2-3x a week was overtraining. Now I think I could squat 12x a week if I had the time and really wanted to. This is what Bell and Aita are talking about. Not that you don't have to manage fatigue, injuries or training stress; just that you can handle a heck of a lot more than you think you can.
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