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-   -   Wendler: You Can Out Train Your Diet (http://www.muscleandbrawn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8654)

BendtheBar 01-18-2012 12:20 PM

Wendler: You Can Out Train Your Diet
 
You Can Out Train Your Diet - JimWendler.com

Quote:

Itís not a popular sentiment to say this, but you can out train your diet. People have done it for thousands of years and people do it today. I have seen hundreds of people do it. Just not popular to say that if you are selling a nutrition program, idea or fitness lifestyle.

The problem is that most canít train that hard. The time, dedication and work ethic are things most people donít have. They have jobs and other hobbies/parts of their life that are more important than training. There is no shame in that Ė you can still be very successful (insanely) and not dedictate EVERY moment of your life to training. But you can out train your diet.

There are two things you CANíT out train Ė your past and your age. If you grow up fat and never learned how to eat correctly, you canít out train that without a proper diet. This is a good reason to teach your children GOOD (not great, good) eating habits at a young age. They wonít have to suffer from a life time of self-esteem issues, relationship issues, a hampered social life in high school and really, being an all-around drama king/queen about their ****ing body. If you are 18 years old and you donít know what healthy foods are and what they arenít, your parents have failed you.

Age is another thing that is impossible to out train without a healthy diet. Eating like shit will catch up to you eventually Ė either in the waist or in the doctorís office. Not to mention joint pain, stomach problems, reflux, etc. At a certain point, you should eat like a grown up.

Yes there are exceptions to these rules, but using them to prove your point only proves the biggest one of all.

BendtheBar 01-18-2012 12:23 PM

Quote:

The problem is that most can’t train that hard.
This is a point I have been trying to get across to some of the younger guys who are 90% focused on diet.

They need to get their training in gear. Most young guys think they're training hard enough.

bamazav 01-18-2012 12:33 PM

One problem is the definition many have of training hard. If you break a sweat you are training hard. Not so, if your metabolism is up, you can sweat just looking at the gym equipment. Hard training is much more than breaking a sweat. Weight pulled, volume, density, speed, , etc... all contribute to hard training.

Kuytrider 01-18-2012 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BendtheBar (Post 208673)
This is a point I have been trying to get across to some of the younger guys who are 90% focused on diet.

They need to get their training in gear. Most young guys think they're training hard enough.

Personally, I have no real excuses for not upping my work rate. I feel stronger than ever, have a gym nearby, a job that allows me to do what I like and an increasing appetite for meat and heavy stuff.
Others are not so lucky and who knows if I'll ever have a better time to make hay.
Wendler may have a point but it doesn't give carte blanche to have poor dietary habits (which is exactly what he just said lol!). Plenty of good, relatively healthy ways to get protein, fat and carbs.

And I also agree that few people ever fully understand 'hard training'. Take a look at some of the real experienced and dedicated lifters on MAB and you'll know what 'hard training' is.

SeventySeven 01-18-2012 01:00 PM

A key to training hard, is mentally pushing past pain, which a lot of people do not. Thet hit the threshold and quit.

BendtheBar 01-18-2012 01:09 PM

Hard training for me means breaking out of the comfort zone and doing exercises I don't want to do, and getting as strong as I can on them. For me it also means never wasting a set.

bamazav 01-18-2012 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BendtheBar (Post 208691)
Hard training for me also means never wasting a set.

fixed

Great point!

5kgLifter 01-19-2012 10:44 AM

Just to clarify, training hard does not equate to pain and pushing past or through pain...your own mental comfort zone or physical comfort zone, maybe, but neither is "pain" related.

Diet, is a funny old thing, nobody can actually agree on what constitutes a good diet anyway so out-training a lousy diet is a complex statement before the training aspect of it is even considered. Many would consider white bread to be part of a lousy diet, many wouldn't...etc. HiCarb, LoCarb... :tomato:

bruteforce 01-19-2012 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5kgLifter (Post 208958)
Just to clarify, training hard does not equate to pain and pushing past or through pain...your own mental comfort zone or physical comfort zone, maybe, but neither is "pain" related.

Let me add, be careful what pain you push past. Doing this has left me injured again. Its fine to push past where you want to stop, to push past mental and emotional barriers, but if something feels damaged or like its about to become damaged, STOP dammit. To re-iterate, pushing through the burn, pumps, sucking air, thinking "No way can I get another rep" are fine. When you feel your spine shift and pop, have an arm go numb, or feel your knee dislocate, don't finish the set. Yes, I've done all of these recently and have no idea why I can't just let it go when I know I need to.

Back to the article, I like it a lot. If I'm injury free, I can eat a couple slices of pizza in addition to my usual food, hit squats and deadlifts hard, and suffer no ill effects. This is the biggest reason I lift, so I can eat more.

BigJosh 01-19-2012 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5kgLifter (Post 208958)
Just to clarify, training hard does not equate to pain and pushing past or through pain...your own mental comfort zone or physical comfort zone, maybe, but neither is "pain" related.

I agree with this. A workout should be difficult, it should be physical exterting, you can at times find yourself uncomfortable, but it should not be a painful experience.
That whole no pain no gain idea is 80's movie dogma in my opinion.

In relation to the OP, Wendler is speaking how it is. Yes, it's important to have a good diet, but if you are training your ass off and pushing for progression, you will make gains. This whole idea that your diet has to be spot on perfect or you will fail is an extreme idea or an exagerattion IMO.

However, I understand if you are a legit bodybuilder and need to keep your bf% EXTREMELY low you probably need to have a "perfect" diet.

Just my thoughts on the subject.


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