Muscle and Brawn Forums
 

Go Back   Muscle and Brawn Forums > Training > Powerlifting & Strength Training

Notices

Powerlifting & Strength Training Topics related to powerlifting and strength training.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-19-2012, 11:09 AM   #11
BendtheBar
Bearded Beast of Duloc
Max Brawn
Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100
Activity: 49% Activity: 49% Activity: 49%
 
BendtheBar's Avatar
 
Extreme Mini Golf Champion!Tournaments Won: 6

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 80,727
Training Exp: 20+ years
Training Type: Powerbuilding
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Fav Supp: Butter
Reputation: 2578875
BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!
Default

Yeah this certainly isn't pain related. I never push past tweaks or strains...ever. No exceptions. I shut down workouts if there is any concern.

I will add that it can be easy to read into an article like this and assume it carries with it some excess amount of machismo or call towards lunacy. I personally don't see it like that. "Not" training hard usually involves:

1) Avoiding the most potent lifts, or looking for an easier way.
2) Having no defined progression scheme.
3) Having no drive or sense of urgency.
4) Not facing mental challenges.

There is certainly nothing wrong with being a recreational lifter who exercises for health. There is certainly nothing wrong with not having the drive to deadlift 600. Personal goals are personal goals, end of story.

With all that said, when someone is training hard they can overcome a lot of dieting and nutritional deficiencies.

Just check out any forum that has a high population of guys spinning their wheels. A high percentage of them are obsessing about nutrition and have structured plans. But when it comes to training most of them don't have a progression plan, are using a lot of fluff exercises, and many of them are looking for ways to avoid the hardest exercises.
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Destroy That Which Destroys You

"Let bravery be thy choice, but not bravado."


BendtheBar is online now   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 01-19-2012, 11:22 AM   #12
Shadowschmadow
Totally Bitchin'
Max Brawn
Points: 2,307, Level: 29 Points: 2,307, Level: 29 Points: 2,307, Level: 29
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
 
Shadowschmadow's Avatar
 
Soccer Tournament Champion!
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Soviet Maryland
Posts: 1,065
Training Exp: 8 years off and on
Training Type: SFW!
Fav Exercise: Bench Press
Reputation: 11624
Shadowschmadow is a dedicated contributorShadowschmadow is a dedicated contributorShadowschmadow is a dedicated contributorShadowschmadow is a dedicated contributorShadowschmadow is a dedicated contributorShadowschmadow is a dedicated contributorShadowschmadow is a dedicated contributorShadowschmadow is a dedicated contributorShadowschmadow is a dedicated contributorShadowschmadow is a dedicated contributorShadowschmadow is a dedicated contributor
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5kgLifter View Post
Diet, is a funny old thing, nobody can actually agree on what constitutes a good diet anyway... Many would consider white bread to be part of a lousy diet, many wouldn't...etc. HiCarb, LoCarb...
This is something I try to stress, and I don't believe that many people get it, or want to believe that its correct:

Through all the research I've done - every article, study, research review, etc. have all lead me to strongly believe in one thing; 99% of the shit you read about, and people worry about, doesn't really f*cking matter. Period. In my honest opinion, good nutrition is very simple.

If your focus is...

- Consuming an appropriate amount of calories to maintain a healthy bodyweight
- Ensuring the bulk of your food is unprocessed
- Consuming several servings of fruits and vegetables daily
- Taking in some amount of dairy products
- Consuming an adequate amount of protein
- Consuming an adequate amount of healthy fats (variety)
- Have a diverse diet! (fish, nuts, oils, beans, etc.)
(I'm sure I'm forgetting a few basics but you get the point)

... the little things in between aren't going to any meaningful value. You won't be able to take in excessive amounts of carbs (or anything like that) if this criteria is met. However it will leave room for the little joys in life.

If all that is followed; a little bag of Doritos, or ice cream at night, or a beer or whatever... None of it will mean shit as long as you live within those means. And none of those things can define a healthy or unhealthy diet under those conditions because their overall impact is so insignificant.

Yes, it really is that simple. And yes, I read/studied this crap for years - panicked over little details and all that - just to find out that almost everything I read wasn't really applicable or even meaningful.
__________________
The Greatest Respect You Can Earn is Self Respect.

Last edited by Shadowschmadow; 01-19-2012 at 11:25 AM.
Shadowschmadow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2012, 11:37 AM   #13
bigtim27
the thrilla from phila
Max Brawn
Points: 7,178, Level: 56 Points: 7,178, Level: 56 Points: 7,178, Level: 56
Activity: 4% Activity: 4% Activity: 4%
 
bigtim27's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Atlantic City, NJ
Posts: 1,698
Training Exp: 3
Training Type: Lose Weight
Fav Exercise: Military Press
Fav Supp: xtend
Reputation: 11777
bigtim27 is a dedicated contributorbigtim27 is a dedicated contributorbigtim27 is a dedicated contributorbigtim27 is a dedicated contributorbigtim27 is a dedicated contributorbigtim27 is a dedicated contributorbigtim27 is a dedicated contributorbigtim27 is a dedicated contributorbigtim27 is a dedicated contributorbigtim27 is a dedicated contributorbigtim27 is a dedicated contributor
Default

I agree with Shadow on this. Little things may matter if you are in contest and already shredded but for the average person just looking to be healthier and either maintain or drop some weight you just have to stick to the basics calories in vs calories out.
__________________
I'll find strength in pain.
bigtim27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2012, 12:37 PM   #14
Shadowschmadow
Totally Bitchin'
Max Brawn
Points: 2,307, Level: 29 Points: 2,307, Level: 29 Points: 2,307, Level: 29
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
 
Shadowschmadow's Avatar
 
Soccer Tournament Champion!
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Soviet Maryland
Posts: 1,065
Training Exp: 8 years off and on
Training Type: SFW!
Fav Exercise: Bench Press
Reputation: 11624
Shadowschmadow is a dedicated contributorShadowschmadow is a dedicated contributorShadowschmadow is a dedicated contributorShadowschmadow is a dedicated contributorShadowschmadow is a dedicated contributorShadowschmadow is a dedicated contributorShadowschmadow is a dedicated contributorShadowschmadow is a dedicated contributorShadowschmadow is a dedicated contributorShadowschmadow is a dedicated contributorShadowschmadow is a dedicated contributor
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigtim27 View Post
I agree with Shadow on this. Little things may matter if you are in contest and already shredded but for the average person just looking to be healthier and either maintain or drop some weight you just have to stick to the basics calories in vs calories out.
I'm not necessarily talking about getting shredded, fat-loss, jakt or whatever. I'm just talking about general health and a healthy diet. You manipulate the whatever to achieve individual goals, but the principle remains the same.
__________________
The Greatest Respect You Can Earn is Self Respect.
Shadowschmadow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2012, 10:54 AM   #15
Trevor Ross
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 4,170, Level: 41 Points: 4,170, Level: 41 Points: 4,170, Level: 41
Activity: 4% Activity: 4% Activity: 4%
 

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 506
Training Exp: 10 years
Training Type: Powerbuilding
Fav Supp: Food
Reputation: 14995
Trevor Ross is a dedicated contributorTrevor Ross is a dedicated contributorTrevor Ross is a dedicated contributorTrevor Ross is a dedicated contributorTrevor Ross is a dedicated contributorTrevor Ross is a dedicated contributorTrevor Ross is a dedicated contributorTrevor Ross is a dedicated contributorTrevor Ross is a dedicated contributorTrevor Ross is a dedicated contributorTrevor Ross is a dedicated contributor
Default

Then you get Dave Tate saying this.

I asked Dave Tate what he thought about nutrition. He rolled his eyes at me and walked away. "Okay," I thought. Another guy heard my question and was a little more interested. He said he took in 8,000 calories per day and most of these came from liquid. He took in at least one gram of protein per pound of bodyweight (gee, I've never heard that before), used a lot of carb/protein shakes, and supplemented with healthy fats. He kept his fats at 30% of his diet.

I went back to Tate and he said, "Nutrition is overrated." He pointed to one of the other guys and said, "He's one of the strongest guys in the world and he eats grits. He eats maybe 600 calories per day." Hmmm, it would be interesting to have that metabolism. Stay anabolic by eating grits! Simmons added only this, "Cholesterol turns into Testosterone." I could only imagine what his diet is if that's his main rule of nutrition. Additionally, I'd like to see John Berardi's response to that statement. But hey, it obviously works for Simmons.

Here's a link to the article.

T NATION | Getting Schooled Westside Style
Trevor Ross is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2012, 11:59 AM   #16
tank
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 5,446, Level: 47 Points: 5,446, Level: 47 Points: 5,446, Level: 47
Activity: 16% Activity: 16% Activity: 16%
 
tank's Avatar
 
Tournaments Won: 3

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: NC, USA
Posts: 2,329
Training Exp: Rookie
Training Type: Fullbody
Fav Exercise: Squat
Fav Supp: Food
Reputation: 19889
tank is a dedicated contributortank is a dedicated contributortank is a dedicated contributortank is a dedicated contributortank is a dedicated contributortank is a dedicated contributortank is a dedicated contributortank is a dedicated contributortank is a dedicated contributortank is a dedicated contributortank is a dedicated contributor
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Ross View Post
Then you get Dave Tate saying this.

I asked Dave Tate what he thought about nutrition. He rolled his eyes at me and walked away. "Okay," I thought. Another guy heard my question and was a little more interested. He said he took in 8,000 calories per day and most of these came from liquid. He took in at least one gram of protein per pound of bodyweight (gee, I've never heard that before), used a lot of carb/protein shakes, and supplemented with healthy fats. He kept his fats at 30% of his diet.

I went back to Tate and he said, "Nutrition is overrated." He pointed to one of the other guys and said, "He's one of the strongest guys in the world and he eats grits. He eats maybe 600 calories per day." Hmmm, it would be interesting to have that metabolism. Stay anabolic by eating grits! Simmons added only this, "Cholesterol turns into Testosterone." I could only imagine what his diet is if that's his main rule of nutrition. Additionally, I'd like to see John Berardi's response to that statement. But hey, it obviously works for Simmons.

Here's a link to the article.

T NATION | Getting Schooled Westside Style
that's disappointing to see dave say.
__________________
My Training Journal 5' 8" Current BW 207 (94) lbs (kg)

20 JAN 12 at 200 (90) BW - 385/275/405 (175/125/184) SQ/B/D

29 MAY 12 at 206 (93) BW - 135/175 (61/79) SN/CJ
tank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2012, 01:33 PM   #17
Pull14
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 3,581, Level: 37 Points: 3,581, Level: 37 Points: 3,581, Level: 37
Activity: 4% Activity: 4% Activity: 4%
 
Pull14's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: New Jersey, US
Posts: 1,117
Training Type: Fullbody
Reputation: 32208
Pull14 is a lifting machinePull14 is a lifting machinePull14 is a lifting machinePull14 is a lifting machinePull14 is a lifting machinePull14 is a lifting machinePull14 is a lifting machinePull14 is a lifting machinePull14 is a lifting machinePull14 is a lifting machinePull14 is a lifting machine
Default

One of the reasons Jim Wendler is among my favorite writers. His points are simple as are his explanations, but the value of his short articles... priceless. Cuts down BS like a chainsaw through butter.

Since moving to the training system I have, its been easy maintain weight and even lose some while eating not the healthiest of choices. Now to be fair, I select healthy over unhealthy, but I'm also not hesitant to crack open a few beers here and there or snack on some doritos. That said my training is hard mentally and physically, many days it take a lot of mental strength to push for those additional sets and when I dead tired add on 10-20 minutes of conditioning. Luckily training is something that I enjoy and among my top priorities in terms of hobbies. Its benefits, among other things, allows me to push through some tough stuff for 2 hours and live my day comfortably feed. No starving, no craving.

As Jim and you guys pointed out, training hard enough is the key in out training a less then 100% perfect diet. And as you guys pointed out, training hard encompasses a lot of things. Pain has to be pushed, but this is the mental pain of hard sets and physical pain brought on by fatigue; not the pain comes from jury - theres no point in doing something that will keep you out of the weight room.

Heavy weight has to be moved, pounds, reps, or sets added on a consistent basis. Perform lifts that effect the entire body, the ones you will sometimes loath doing because of difficulty. Sometype of conditioning should also be added. The specific conditioning doesn't matter or how hard you push it every session, just do something.

Nothing new in this post, but just throwing out my 2 cents because its something that I strongly believe in. Just like the nonsense that "you have to gain weight" to get decently strong, the assumption that diet is everything is a crock. Of course there is give and take to everything, but ends can still meet with a variety of variables.
Pull14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2012, 02:16 PM   #18
BendtheBar
Bearded Beast of Duloc
Max Brawn
Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100
Activity: 49% Activity: 49% Activity: 49%
 
BendtheBar's Avatar
 
Extreme Mini Golf Champion!Tournaments Won: 6

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 80,727
Training Exp: 20+ years
Training Type: Powerbuilding
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Fav Supp: Butter
Reputation: 2578875
BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!
Default

I admit I am a bit like Tate. I think nutrition is overrated in the sense that as long as a reasonable amount of protein and calories are taken in, and a sensible amount of healthier food, you really don't need to obsess about much.

Last year I ate like a complete fool and broke nearly every rule and destroyed PRs.

Don't read into this as me telling bodybuilders not to count macros, etc. I am merely saying that if you get your calories in and eat a reasonable amount of healthy food and protein then you're good to go. It's really not rocket surgery.

To Pull's point...you don't need to gain weight to get reasonably strong. Powerlifting records reveal this reality. I had a near 400 pound squat while weighing 190-ish in college. But I will add that I do get stronger much more quickly when I am gaining weight at a semi-rapid pace. This has never let me down.
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Destroy That Which Destroys You

"Let bravery be thy choice, but not bravado."



Last edited by BendtheBar; 01-21-2012 at 06:55 PM.
BendtheBar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2012, 02:19 PM   #19
Disciple X
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 6,017, Level: 50 Points: 6,017, Level: 50 Points: 6,017, Level: 50
Activity: 5% Activity: 5% Activity: 5%
 
Disciple X's Avatar
 
Beach Sudoku Champion!
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Hartsville, SC
Posts: 1,711
Training Type: Powerlifting
Reputation: 42429
Disciple X is a lifting machineDisciple X is a lifting machineDisciple X is a lifting machineDisciple X is a lifting machineDisciple X is a lifting machineDisciple X is a lifting machineDisciple X is a lifting machineDisciple X is a lifting machineDisciple X is a lifting machineDisciple X is a lifting machineDisciple X is a lifting machine
Default

I've been eating everything in site and breaking pr's left and right...

I've also been training like crazy, including squatting six days a week

Last edited by Disciple X; 01-21-2012 at 02:22 PM.
Disciple X is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2012, 02:31 PM   #20
Traphouse86
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 6,569, Level: 53 Points: 6,569, Level: 53 Points: 6,569, Level: 53
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
 
Traphouse86's Avatar
 
Yeti Sports 3 - Seal Bounce Champion!
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Hartsville, SC
Posts: 1,361
Training Exp: 6 Years
Training Type: Powerlifting
Fav Exercise: Bench Press
Fav Supp: Muscle Milk & Xtend
Reputation: 15557
Traphouse86 is a dedicated contributorTraphouse86 is a dedicated contributorTraphouse86 is a dedicated contributorTraphouse86 is a dedicated contributorTraphouse86 is a dedicated contributorTraphouse86 is a dedicated contributorTraphouse86 is a dedicated contributorTraphouse86 is a dedicated contributorTraphouse86 is a dedicated contributorTraphouse86 is a dedicated contributorTraphouse86 is a dedicated contributor
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Disciple X View Post
I've been eating everything in site and breaking pr's left and right...

I've also been training like crazy, including squatting six days a week
Well said, we need the VOR in here
__________________
Traphouse all day no lunch breaks.


"I donít believe that anyone knows what his or her full potential is, I donít believe in genetics as a ceiling for performance, and I donít believe in plateaus." JMB



Proudly Sponsored by http://muscleandbrawn.com/
Traphouse86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
diet, train, wendler


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Wendler 5/3/1 App BigJosh Training Resources 2 05-23-2012 05:45 PM
Does Jim Wendler Exist BendtheBar Powerlifting & Strength Training 11 04-23-2012 02:02 PM
Jim Wendler on The Yoke BendtheBar Articles 11 09-04-2011 11:19 AM
Wendler Warm Up BendtheBar Video Compilations 0 05-08-2011 05:56 PM
Wendler 5 3 1 rant Violent Volume Powerlifting & Strength Training 31 01-23-2011 11:44 PM

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:18 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.