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Old 10-26-2011, 09:51 AM   #1
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Default How to set up a PL cycle?

Hi there,

I trained with a HLM template but always blow myself out on the H days and i had no idea how to cycle them best.

I thought that it might be a good idea to run a PL cycle for the big lifts for the H day and do accessory work in the L/M range the other.
So one day is devoted to TENSION and the other to FATIGUE to get strong ,big and allow for intracylce variation which seemed to work for me good in the past.

The point is, that i found some PL cycles on the net, but NO recommondation regarding volume for the days during the cycle.

The only table i know-as u-is the Prilepins table which was created for weightlifters but seems to work for powerlifts also quite well.
I think the recommondations are not bad, but still it seems quite less volume for me. (everything under 90%). If i look up waterburys set/rep bible the set/rep combos are much higher for "strength and hypertrophy"

Some might argue, that i should run wendlers 531. I made the experience that a bit more volume suits me well. I never progressed with ramped sets. Sets across always worked well for me.

So i had following idea in mind. 2x the week whole body

Day1 HEAVY PL Cylce:

1.week: 3x6 @ 70% 1rpm
2.week: 3x4 @ 80% 1rpm
3. week: 3x2 @ 90% 1rpm the 3rd set is an ALL OUT SET
4. week DELOAD 3x5 @ 60% 1rpm
5. week: Recalculate the maxes with the help of wendlers formular based on my all out set in the 4th week. Start new

Day2 : Accessory: L/M

Here i will pick one exercise per mouscle group and do 4x10 with 2 min rest. The next weeks i try do add reps but remain the weight. fatigue and volume is goal here.
I will go to near failure but only on the last rep on the last set each session.
In the deload week i will but the volume in half and drop the weight by 10% for this day.
In the new cycle I will start again but use the 2x15 1min rest paramters this time to get some variety in.
If this cycle is over too, i will flip the accessorsy exercises and start again with 4x10.
Because i will use cables and dumbbels and such a higher volume on this day, its insured that this day is in all weeks lighter than the H day. this is the purpose.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think this is quite sound.
Whats really new for me is, that i use a %based training chart and donīt go all out on the last rep on the last set which was my standard approach over the years. that worked good for L and M days for 5 weeks, but never for the H days.
Thats why i want to give this a try- i still train near failure on the last set on the accessory day.the weight are aroung 60%1rpm so goin near all out only on the last set should work like in the past.
I also need that for motivation. if i got only 10 reps on the last set on the last session and this time 14 i know for sure i got stronger.
When holding always reps back on all sets i never have a clue if i really got stronger. This seems to work on the lower % days because they are more easy on the CNS-but for the HEAVY days i think the PL approach works better to prevent from burning out.

Opinions are really welcome-its my first cycle and donīt want to mess it up!

Flow

Last edited by flow; 10-26-2011 at 10:01 AM.
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Old 10-26-2011, 09:57 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flow View Post
...I made the experience that a bit more volume suits me well. I never progressed with ramped sets. Sets across always worked well for me.
This:

Raw Powerlifting: How To Increase Your One Rep Max - Muscle and Brawn Bodybuilding, Powerlifting and Muscle Building.

Has been working well for a at least one guy on this forum that I know of, in 8 weeks he's added 25kg to his Squat and 15kg to his Bench. His log:

http://muscleandbrawn.com/forums/tra...tml#post171818

Two others are starting this week, I've used that approach on 5-6 lifters across the years and progress has been good every time. If you want help on specifics we can hash it out on this thread.
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Old 10-26-2011, 10:14 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fazc View Post
This:

Raw Powerlifting: How To Increase Your One Rep Max - Muscle and Brawn Bodybuilding, Powerlifting and Muscle Building.

Has been working well for a at least one guy on this forum that I know of, in 8 weeks he's added 25kg to his Squat and 15kg to his Bench. His log:

http://muscleandbrawn.com/forums/tra...tml#post171818

Two others are starting this week, I've used that approach on 5-6 lifters across the years and progress has been good every time. If you want help on specifics we can hash it out on this thread.
wow thank you for the fast reply.
Is there another article which takes the cycling of poundage and volume in consideration more precisely? The main point seems to be, that you use your 5rpm and do singles with it.
Is there also a more specifivic template to this? Progression, Cycling, back off etc?

what are the drawbacks of my plan?
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Old 10-26-2011, 10:20 AM   #4
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Cycling doesn't need to be a complicated or highly prescriptive affair, it is essentially switching between periods of high workload and lowered intensity with periods of low workload and higher intensity. Or using a different (but related) model it is periods of high intensity and high workload against periods of low intensity and low workload.

I explain that here if you're interested, but it is a long read:

http://muscleandbrawn.com/forums/art...tml#post183034

Your progression is quite simply this: if you start with Bench Press for 100kg for 5 singles, then when you get all of those 5 singles in good form you move to 102.5kg.

Back off weeks come when you need them, typically every 2 to 8 weeks, and they entail a week on the same routine but at 50%.

Cycling is unnecessary for most people until they are far more advanced. I prefer back off weeks for beginners/intermediates as they are a simple way to periodise without disrupting the flow and focus of training.

My question for you, what are your poundages for the Squat, Bench Press, Deadlift and Overhead Press?

Last edited by Fazc; 10-26-2011 at 10:23 AM.
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Old 10-26-2011, 11:16 AM   #5
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thank you- i will for sure read it! But first i want to reply to get you a picture of me:

-current stats: 30s old 186cm high, 88kg 19%BF. small bones. long arms and legs.
-Started training 12 years ago with 186cm and 68 kg and 28cm arms
-Highest weight i reached was 98kg but 23%BF and 40cm arms. Best lift were bench 90kgx10rpm then and dumbbell military press with 35g/side x 6
-I love training and theory thats why i own books from bompa, siff, kraemer , pavel and so on. But the more you know the more focus you loose.
- Best programm which worked for me was the HLM format. 3x3/2x15 and 3x10.
But only if the days are separeted from each other. mixing H day with L didnīt worked-perhpas too diferent stimuli in one session. And as metnioend i burned out on the H days.thats why i wanted to change something.But i think its important to have a light and heavy session in general.no matter if you do a "light" phase or "heavy" phase. i think this intracycling thing is quite important.
-I was always the upper body guy- i am honest. the last year i tried to master the squat but didnīt got it. The deadlift suits me much more and i do it now regulary.
-For the press: I also did it last year,(60kg 5x5) but had issues with my wrists.thats why i prefer dumbbells.
-I am lighter and weaker know than i was at my peak weight-but i wanted to drop the fat. The status quo you see in the first row.

Regarding my lifts:
-chin up with dead hangx6
-bench 1 rpm 90-95kg
-deadlift: Think about 120kg. Did 105x8 last time.

The main idea i want to follow is to train for strength on one PULL and PUSH movement for upper body. And deadlift for lower ( i know its a pull also).
Like:
deadlift
chin up
bench

These are the lifts which contains the highest possible weight for push and pull. Also the bic shoulders and tric are involved and should get stimulated with the heavy loads.

The light day should generate the fatigue/recovery and allow the environment for growth.
that was my main idea and seems it could work well that what you do.

I am curious to learn more.
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Old 10-26-2011, 11:46 AM   #6
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Okay I can appreciate that you want to go the H/L/M route instead of a 4 way split, that's something I've had 2-3 years of experience with. So here's what I would do, if you were looking to gain mass/strength.

Heavy Day - 3 minutes rest between sets - 3 sets of 10

Bench Press
Squat
Bent Row
RDL
Overhead Press

Light Day - 1 minute rest between sets - 3 sets of 15

DB Bench Press
Weighted Lunges or 1 Legged Squats
DB Row
Hyper Extensions
DB Overhead Press

Medium - 2 minutes rest between sets - 3 sets of 12

Seated Press
Front Squat or Leg Press
Deadlift
CGBP
Chins

That is not a PL routine, but it is more in-line with your need to do a H/L/M routine. It will allow for mass/strength if you stick to it and progressively add weight to the bar.
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Old 10-26-2011, 01:02 PM   #7
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Fazc,

Thank you for your reply again.
I can work out 2x the week. Thats why it would be possible to do one H day and one L/M day.

Like H: 5x5-7 3min rest. (approx. 80-85%1rpm) L/M: 4x10-12 1min rest. (approx 70%of 1rpm)

The main idea to change the H day to a PL cycle was, to prevent burnout (only aiming for the prescribed reps) and get some cycling in because if i stall on the template above or that you suggested-even when deloading-what should i do next? 3x3 on heavy day? 9x1? Board presses for 5?Just switching the exercises? Or lighten it up and to 20īs ? How should the L/M days be arranged then?
What happens after this cycle again?

Because of this problems this was one purpose why i thought of the PL cycle: Easier programming.
My mentioned pl cycle has already different reps sets and %of rpm build in and goes from light to heavy over the cycle and start new. i can repeat the cycle over and over without thinking too much. and also the accessory stuff is cycled with 4x10 for one cycle and 2x15 the other as mentioned.
The H and L/M principle is always remained during this cycle. The H gets the tension and weight increases in and the L/M day the fatigue through volume.

This is why i had the idea of setting up this programm and thread

I hope the picture is more clear now Fazc.

PS: Think my idea already exists. GST:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...1353501&page=2
post number 32

Last edited by flow; 10-26-2011 at 01:21 PM.
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Old 10-26-2011, 02:56 PM   #8
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one thing which could also be taken in consideration would be to progress similar but with higher volume.'The H/L principel is also maintained:

1.cycle: H 4x10 2min / L 3x15-20 1min
2.cycle: H 5x5-7 3min / L 4x10 2min
3.cycle: H 3x3-5 4min /L 5x5-7 3min
-----------------------------------------
H: Barbell exercises
L: dumbell and cables

This could be used for a 3 week cycle. Or each line is done for more weeks till stalling and then next step is taken afterwards.
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