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Old 10-11-2011, 11:02 AM   #1
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Default Feet Forward Squats

An interesting topic was brought up in ILL's training journal:

http://muscleandbrawn.com/forums/tra...tml#post179444

Quote:
Normally I listen to Jake and Mab, and that's it, but the guy who trashed wide squats is suppose to be ex world class at 198lbs. His name is Mike Barber. He's a big strong dude and others have vouched for him. Who knows, really?

His theory is that the hamstrings are only a "connector muscle" and they can't handle massive loads.

He also told me he has two masters degrees and has trained with Louie Simmons AND Ed Coan He also says feet placement is nonsense!?
Quote:
He says under all circumstances the feet should be pointed forward.

There are too many people that vouch for his stats. I think he's mechanically built to lift(5'5") and his thinks his stance applys to everyone.

I can't wait to hear your opinion
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Old 10-11-2011, 11:07 AM   #2
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Do you know if he lifts in gear, 1 ply, 2 ply?
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Old 10-11-2011, 11:13 AM   #3
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That is an interesting topic, now whether I believe that his doctrine is sound is up in the air. But I have ALWAYS squatted with my feet slightly angled a "natural" position if you will. I find that I personally have a bit of a hard time pointing my feet forward when squatting because I am slightly pigeon-toed and bow-legged (maybe my opinion doesn't count...lol)and I have taught my clients and others to find a "natural" foot positioning. Now if that is feet forward or either feet angled it still falls upon the individual and their preference. I will give anyone ear if they are coming from a place of constructive criticism, but when it comes to saying your word is law...well you just lost me.
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Old 10-11-2011, 11:18 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fazc View Post
Do you know if he lifts in gear, 1 ply, 2 ply?
He competed raw Fazc.

Just found this video where Louie Simmons says his trainee should squat feet forward because of the way he is built. Mike Barber is spouting that everyone's feet should be pointed forward. ARGH!!

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Old 10-11-2011, 11:19 AM   #5
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My foundation for teaching lift form comes from the natural side of things. Taking natural movements and mechanics and teaching the lifts using what the body already does well.

Most of us don't stand feet forward or jump feet forward. If he take a wide stance it feels unnatural to place our feet forward.
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Old 10-11-2011, 11:24 AM   #6
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The "natural" foot psoition which people are discussing is also a point that is taken in to account by surgeons that fuse ankles; they tend to fuse the ankle at around a 30 degree angle so that it does not point forward and look unnatural.

Different view on it but the same result.
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Old 10-11-2011, 11:26 AM   #7
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Squatting Toes-Out by Greg Everett - Catalyst Athletics Articles

Quote:
The first question to ask is why do we squat with the toes out? There are two basic possible answers. The first is that we rotate the feet outward to match the direction of the thighs to ensure the knee is hinging soundly rather than twisting. The second is that the individual has flexibility limitations (namely limited ankle dorsiflexion, and/or tight adductors and/or internal hip rotators) and is forced to excessively turn the toes out and roll onto the inside edges of the feet to circumvent normal ankle and hip movement when trying to achieve a deep squat position. Clearly the latter is not a legitimate reason to squat with the toes out, but this also has no bearing on the argument because it’s entirely unrelated—this is excessive and unintentional outward rotation...
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Old 10-11-2011, 11:57 AM   #8
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Through a few years of trying to perfect my own squat and figure out what works for me I found Platz's method is the best for my physique, take a lot of tension off the psoas muscle (hip flexors) as well, which my right one was torn a year ago, and I still have problems with it.

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Old 10-11-2011, 12:34 PM   #9
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If I tried to face my feet forward and squat my knees would explode. I've ALWAYS pointed my feet out all the time, walking, standing, squatting, even sitting. If when I squat I point my feet even the way most people do then a have massive twisting pressure in my knees after going down about a foot. I could never reach the bottom without tearing everything resembling connective tissue in my knees and probably ankles too.

That sort of one-size-fits-all training is always bad news.

When it comes to foot width, I also find that a narrower stance allows me to push my knees out with much less hip pain. I've never had any injuries, but I still have hip mobility issues that I just can't seem to get rid of. Also, the narrower I go, the more I have to point my feet out. When I'm really narrow my feet point out at more than 45*. It looks funny, but no one says anything since I can squat more than them, and lower too.

When I'm going for weight I'll go just outside shoulder width, but I always get pain in my hip joints afterward.
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Old 10-11-2011, 01:11 PM   #10
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I never considered squatting with my feet any way BUT forward. But this is interesting, I'm gonna give it go with them angled only because if I don't have my feet spread out far enough, my knees get pulled inward which isn't good for them. Maybe it's because having my feet forward isn't natural. Hmm....very interesting, guys!
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