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Old 09-16-2011, 06:40 PM   #11
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Love this. I'm always afraid of hurting my hips but I think that's because I need to keep on the angle of my shins and feet.
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Old 09-16-2011, 11:12 PM   #12
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Interesting video but I'll stick with a narrow stance. It feels more natural and I can actually hit depth.
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Old 09-16-2011, 11:13 PM   #13
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Not to throw a wrench in the love for Louie or wide squatting, but have any of you guys found this, particularly wide squats transferring over to medium and narrow stance better, to be true?... wide being the 'holy grail.'

Me personally, not so much the case. Now my strongest squat of 435 is by no means strong, but was performed with a wide stance. Since that squat I have switched to a medium stance which needed quite a bit of time and work to yield me a 425. From there and most recently I've switched to a narrow (inside shoulders) stance which has proven to be even more difficult to achieve a 405. Training methods have changed, but each change in stance did not correspond with a change in programming and ultimately left me weaker with that particular lift.

If it means anything, some bigger names like Dr. Fred Hatfield and Glenn Pendlay (fred - gymnast turn accomplished powerlifter, glenn - powerlifter turned oly lifter) have noted the lack of transfer from the wide stance to a medium/narrow stance. I've also come across many little-name, but strong guys who have a similar opinion/experience.

Beyond that I think its important to take into account, Louie and Westside is known for its successes with multi-ply lifters, not so much raw lifters, and today, single ply. For the equipped lifter, boxing squatting and wide stance is by far more advantageous given the support it provides in the hole. But many will rightfully argue that this is not the case for raw lifters. Many geared powerlifters will also agree that a wide stance is usually not ideal for the health of a raw lifters hips and among other things, pretty darn difficult to get into position with hundreds of lbs on the back without a monolift.

This is not a bash against Louie, from what I hear he is a genuine guy and will respect him for that and his wide range of success in powerlifting. His statements in the video are however not my experiences.

In sum, I don't think the blanket-statement applies. Stance should still be determined by the lifters preferences, body type, health, and how he lifts - raw, single, multi, shark-proof, nuke-proof, etc.

Your thoughts...?

Edit: Steve beat me to it!
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Old 09-16-2011, 11:28 PM   #14
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I'm on your side of this issue Pull.

I recently spent nearly 18 months trying to widen my stance. I slowly moved it out and initially lost some strength, but brought it back up to where it had been. I ran into quite a few hamstrings tweaks from this style, and noticed that when I would bring my stance back in I wasn't performing as well. I felt like my quads had weakened.

In fact, I mentioned this squat width issue to Glwanabe a few months ago and stated that I didn't believe my attempts to widen my stance were time well spent.

I know Louie says that he's proven quad activation is about the same, but I am going to put myself out there and say I don't see it. I myself have built quality quad size from narrow stance squats. Most narrow stance squatters I know have big quads. On the other hand, I just don't see the same quad size on wide stance squatters.

I don't think I'll even go back to wider stance squats. Right now my stance is about shoulder width apart or a little more and I think I'm staying there.

For anyone reading this, I encourage you to use a natural feeling width, and don't force things narrow or wide. Go natural, find that good knee./toe angle synergy, and go from there.
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Old 09-16-2011, 11:44 PM   #15
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But many will rightfully argue that this is not the case for raw lifters. Many geared powerlifters will also agree that a wide stance is usually not ideal for the health of a raw lifters hips and among other things, pretty darn difficult to get into position with hundreds of lbs on the back without a monolift.!
This has been one of my fears moving my legs around for different squats, and ending up with a few hip pains.

I don't know if I'll always be able to, but right now I want to lift raw. I want to lift without any gear as long as I can.

I'm not sure when to take advice like this wider stance, because it's not clear if raw or not is going to make a difference.

I'll admit I'm afraid of injuries now unlike I have been my whole life because I don't want an injury to stop my training process.
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Old 09-17-2011, 12:03 AM   #16
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Steve, I too have had numerous hamstring tweaks and my hips in general have always felt beat up when squatting wide. Hamstrings could have easier been non-wide stance related, but since moving to a more narrow and natural feeling stance, I've yet to have any issues with hams/hips.

As for the quad involvement statement, I'm in agreement with you. I don't know or care for the science behind it, but simply, a narrower stance usually requires more knee flexion/extension to hit depth and keep the bar over the center of gravity without doing a GM. That alone will require more out of the muscle.
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Old 09-17-2011, 12:17 AM   #17
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Interesting conversation guys, I watched this video at work tonight and was wondering how it would go over. Louis is the man, so whatever he says people take as law for the most part. But I do feel that most things he says work better for geared lifters than anyone else. I mean you can see in the video, that if some squatted raw and sat that far back without a box you would just fall over.

I had experience with this, when I first started reading about Westside. I was exclusively doing box squats, because I thought they were all I needed. Also, I was squatting extemely wide (feet to the sides of the rack). Everything was going great on the box, but as soon as I went to do a squat without the box I nearly fell over. There are huge differences between raw and geared lifting, I wish Louis would address these issues. I think the video makes sense, but more for a geared lifter. Maybe I am wrong.
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Old 09-17-2011, 12:20 AM   #18
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This has been one of my fears moving my legs around for different squats, and ending up with a few hip pains.

I don't know if I'll always be able to, but right now I want to lift raw. I want to lift without any gear as long as I can.

I'm not sure when to take advice like this wider stance, because it's not clear if raw or not is going to make a difference.

I'll admit I'm afraid of injuries now unlike I have been my whole life because I don't want an injury to stop my training process.
To clarify, raw is knee sleeves/wraps a belt OR none. Equipped lifting involves suits/briefs/shirts that will restrict the natural unweighted movement. With most of the stuff out there today, single/multiply lifters won't be able to reach any significant ROM without a lot of weight on the bar. As such, the use of this equipment is not for safety but rather to add some or a lot of weight onto the lifts. With that in mind, you should be able to lift raw throughout the course of your lifting career without touching any of that stuff.

Staying healthy is a matter of choosing stances/sets ups that are comfortable to you and leave you pain free. If your version of wide is painful, than bring the stance in until it isn't. Find that happy medium that leaves you in the strongest position but also comfortable.

Finding out the stance that works best for you can only be determined by you (what Steve and I were getting at). Take a few days off from squatting heavy, get under the bar and play around with different stances. Throw some weight on the bar, but don't go heavy. Start off at shoulder width, do a few sets, then move it out a few inches, then a few more inches. After several sets you should be able to figure out what works for you.
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Old 09-17-2011, 12:26 AM   #19
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Quote:
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To clarify, raw is knee sleeves/wraps a belt OR none. Equipped lifting involves suits/briefs/shirts that will restrict the natural unweighted movement. With most of the stuff out there today, single/multiply lifters won't be able to reach any significant ROM without a lot of weight on the bar. As such, the use of this equipment is not for safety but rather to add some or a lot of weight onto the lifts. With that in mind, you should be able to lift raw throughout the course of your lifting career without touching any of that stuff.

Staying healthy is a matter of choosing stances/sets ups that are comfortable to you and leave you pain free. If your version of wide is painful, than bring the stance in until it isn't. Find that happy medium that leaves you in the strongest position but also comfortable.

Finding out the stance that works best for you can only be determined by you (what Steve and I were getting at). Take a few days off from squatting heavy, get under the bar and play around with different stances. Throw some weight on the bar, but don't go heavy. Start off at shoulder width, do a few sets, then move it out a few inches, then a few more inches. After several sets you should be able to figure out what works for you.
Thank you. Still learning and appreciate the insight.
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Old 09-17-2011, 12:38 AM   #20
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Also after finishing the prep for a late dinner I felt I had to come back:

I don't have anything against "non-raw," and have no where enough experience to even pass any judgement. I guess what I want to make sure is clear is I want to see what I can do with the current skin I have (fat and all).

Obviously I have quite a bit to learn, but if I offend anyone with my ignorance please correct me.
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