Muscle and Brawn Forums
 

Go Back   Muscle and Brawn Forums > Training > Powerlifting & Strength Training

Notices

Powerlifting & Strength Training Topics related to powerlifting and strength training.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-15-2011, 07:04 AM   #1
jp_ottawa
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 3,380, Level: 36 Points: 3,380, Level: 36 Points: 3,380, Level: 36
Activity: 5% Activity: 5% Activity: 5%
 
jp_ottawa's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 736
Training Exp: 1 year
Training Type: Powerlifting
Fav Exercise: bench press
Reputation: 11032
jp_ottawa is a dedicated contributorjp_ottawa is a dedicated contributorjp_ottawa is a dedicated contributorjp_ottawa is a dedicated contributorjp_ottawa is a dedicated contributorjp_ottawa is a dedicated contributorjp_ottawa is a dedicated contributorjp_ottawa is a dedicated contributorjp_ottawa is a dedicated contributorjp_ottawa is a dedicated contributorjp_ottawa is a dedicated contributor
Default The Westside Barbell dynamic method

In this thread let's post a Q&A on how to use max effort and dynamic effort days to improve your strength. I am relatively new to this approach, and have lots of questions that someone may be able to answer.
__________________
---------------------
"PRove the impossible"
jp_ottawa is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 09-15-2011, 07:05 AM   #2
jp_ottawa
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 3,380, Level: 36 Points: 3,380, Level: 36 Points: 3,380, Level: 36
Activity: 5% Activity: 5% Activity: 5%
 
jp_ottawa's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 736
Training Exp: 1 year
Training Type: Powerlifting
Fav Exercise: bench press
Reputation: 11032
jp_ottawa is a dedicated contributorjp_ottawa is a dedicated contributorjp_ottawa is a dedicated contributorjp_ottawa is a dedicated contributorjp_ottawa is a dedicated contributorjp_ottawa is a dedicated contributorjp_ottawa is a dedicated contributorjp_ottawa is a dedicated contributorjp_ottawa is a dedicated contributorjp_ottawa is a dedicated contributorjp_ottawa is a dedicated contributor
Default

In yesterday's workout, I had the following questions:

I've been following a seminar by Dave Tate and got some pointers on dynamic effort days. First off, DE days are not strictly about bands and chains, but moving the weight quickly. If you can't move the weight quickly, there's no point in adding bands. You might as well do some plyo work or toss a med ball (both valid exercices).

My specific dynamic weakness is in the eccentric part of my bench. Lowering the weight slowly increases your time-under-tension, and reduces your explosiveness in the concentric part of the lift. I feel there is no point in working with band tension if I want to work my eccentric bench speed. Today, I worked with 50% of a 1-rep max where I don't break form. Given that my raw max is around 300 pds, I am applying 300 pds of pressure on a 150 bench. That pressure should translate to some rapid triples, but I really need to speed up the eccentric motion. Any advice would be helpful.
__________________
---------------------
"PRove the impossible"
jp_ottawa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2011, 07:29 AM   #3
LtL
SHFW
Max Brawn
Points: 36,892, Level: 100 Points: 36,892, Level: 100 Points: 36,892, Level: 100
Activity: 17% Activity: 17% Activity: 17%
 
LtL's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Reading, Berkshire, UK
Posts: 11,988
Training Exp: 5 years
Training Type: Powerlifting
Fav Exercise: Deadlifts
Fav Supp: Endurance BCAA
Reputation: 455740
LtL is one with Crom!LtL is one with Crom!LtL is one with Crom!LtL is one with Crom!LtL is one with Crom!LtL is one with Crom!LtL is one with Crom!LtL is one with Crom!LtL is one with Crom!LtL is one with Crom!LtL is one with Crom!
Default

Normally a slow eccentric is a sign of not being confident of your bar path. Try chalking the middle of the bar and wearing a dark shirt. Check your shirt after each set: you should have one, thin line. If you have a thick line or worse multiple lines, there's your problem. Once you have grooved that bar path, speeding up the eccentric shouldn't be an issue. I will add that I'm not a fan of an overly speed descent on the bar, you still need to control the weights.

LtL
__________________
Proudly sponsored by Muscle and Brawn and Lifestyle Focus.
Ask me about Ark products.
www.liftingtolive.com
LtL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2011, 07:34 AM   #4
Fazc
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 14,403, Level: 77 Points: 14,403, Level: 77 Points: 14,403, Level: 77
Activity: 36% Activity: 36% Activity: 36%
 

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: U.K
Posts: 5,554
Training Exp: 12+ years
Training Type: Powerlifting
Fav Exercise: Bench Press
Fav Supp: Chicken
Reputation: 420568
Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!
Default

When yo partner hands you da barbell, you need to:

Fazc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2011, 07:36 AM   #5
Fazc
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 14,403, Level: 77 Points: 14,403, Level: 77 Points: 14,403, Level: 77
Activity: 36% Activity: 36% Activity: 36%
 

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: U.K
Posts: 5,554
Training Exp: 12+ years
Training Type: Powerlifting
Fav Exercise: Bench Press
Fav Supp: Chicken
Reputation: 420568
Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LtL View Post
Normally a slow eccentric is a sign of not being confident of your bar path.
On a serious note, yeah LtL summed it up here. Pavel has written a hell of a lot on a speedy descent for Benching (not just for Speed Benches) and it has worked a treat for me. A speedier descent will leave you with more energy to perform a speedier ascent. It also makes the pause look more prominent to the judges.

You really just need to drop that bar (under control) like it's hawt.
Fazc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2011, 02:06 PM   #6
jp_ottawa
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 3,380, Level: 36 Points: 3,380, Level: 36 Points: 3,380, Level: 36
Activity: 5% Activity: 5% Activity: 5%
 
jp_ottawa's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 736
Training Exp: 1 year
Training Type: Powerlifting
Fav Exercise: bench press
Reputation: 11032
jp_ottawa is a dedicated contributorjp_ottawa is a dedicated contributorjp_ottawa is a dedicated contributorjp_ottawa is a dedicated contributorjp_ottawa is a dedicated contributorjp_ottawa is a dedicated contributorjp_ottawa is a dedicated contributorjp_ottawa is a dedicated contributorjp_ottawa is a dedicated contributorjp_ottawa is a dedicated contributorjp_ottawa is a dedicated contributor
Default

Thanks guys. Yeah, sounds like I need to fix my bar path. Makes sense. I'll update later on how its working out.
__________________
---------------------
"PRove the impossible"
jp_ottawa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2011, 11:47 AM   #7
jp_ottawa
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 3,380, Level: 36 Points: 3,380, Level: 36 Points: 3,380, Level: 36
Activity: 5% Activity: 5% Activity: 5%
 
jp_ottawa's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 736
Training Exp: 1 year
Training Type: Powerlifting
Fav Exercise: bench press
Reputation: 11032
jp_ottawa is a dedicated contributorjp_ottawa is a dedicated contributorjp_ottawa is a dedicated contributorjp_ottawa is a dedicated contributorjp_ottawa is a dedicated contributorjp_ottawa is a dedicated contributorjp_ottawa is a dedicated contributorjp_ottawa is a dedicated contributorjp_ottawa is a dedicated contributorjp_ottawa is a dedicated contributorjp_ottawa is a dedicated contributor
Default

Here's an update. As a warmup on my max effort bench, I chalked the bar and saw that the bar path is not always the same over reps. I'm trying to fix that. One thing that seems to help is to keep my entire body as tight as possible throughout the lift. That means no slacking in the legs, butt, and upper body. Its harder than it sounds, but it seems to work.

I will keep checking my bar path until nothing moves any more. Tweaking my form is a pain in the ass, but I'm sure it will be worth it in the long run.
__________________
---------------------
"PRove the impossible"
jp_ottawa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2011, 03:55 PM   #8
BendtheBar
Bearded Beast of Duloc
Max Brawn
Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100
Activity: 49% Activity: 49% Activity: 49%
 
BendtheBar's Avatar
 
Extreme Mini Golf Champion!Tournaments Won: 6

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 80,719
Training Exp: 20+ years
Training Type: Powerbuilding
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Fav Supp: Butter
Reputation: 2578875
BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!
Default

I try to stay tight. Not sure if this was mentioned, but concentrate on rowing the bar towards your chest during the eccentric. This will help with back and arm tightness.
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Destroy That Which Destroys You

"Let bravery be thy choice, but not bravado."


BendtheBar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2011, 04:48 PM   #9
J_Byrd
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 21,229, Level: 91 Points: 21,229, Level: 91 Points: 21,229, Level: 91
Activity: 28% Activity: 28% Activity: 28%
 
J_Byrd's Avatar
 
Spider Solitare Four Suit Champion! Pick Up Sticks 3D Champion!
Tournaments Won: 3

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: St. Johns, FL
Posts: 5,714
Training Exp: 15
Training Type: Powerlifting
Fav Exercise: Squat
Reputation: 433342
J_Byrd is one with Crom!J_Byrd is one with Crom!J_Byrd is one with Crom!J_Byrd is one with Crom!J_Byrd is one with Crom!J_Byrd is one with Crom!J_Byrd is one with Crom!J_Byrd is one with Crom!J_Byrd is one with Crom!J_Byrd is one with Crom!J_Byrd is one with Crom!
Default

To really answer this question fully, I really need to know how you set up on the bench.
1. How is your arch?
2. Where is your foot placement?
3. Are you able to keep your shoulder blades together, and lats tight?
4. Are you brining the bar down with the lats, or are you losing your arch?
5. What is your bar travel on the way up? Is it straight up, or is it in an arch?

The bar travel will not be perfect every time, but you need to know what your strongest groove is. You are right with the concept that there is no need to add bands/chains untill you can move the given weight as quickly as it needs to be. Its not about how much weight you move, but more about the explosiveness you complete the lifts with. To give you a reference point, I use 205 when I am doing some Dynamic effort work. I have benched well over 700lbs in a shirt. Most people are shocked with the amount of weight you can add to your benchpress in just a few weeks of working on set up and form.
__________________
Best meet lifts: 1040squat, 705 bench, 730 deadlift
Best total: 1040-680-730=2450
Pro Total@308

Proudly sponsored by

http://muscleandbrawn.com

http://bigworkoutplan.com/

http://www.andersonpowerlifting.com/Default.asp


"This is about strength, not getting a 10.0 form score from the Russian judge" Steve Shaw
J_Byrd is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2011, 09:03 AM   #10
jp_ottawa
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 3,380, Level: 36 Points: 3,380, Level: 36 Points: 3,380, Level: 36
Activity: 5% Activity: 5% Activity: 5%
 
jp_ottawa's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 736
Training Exp: 1 year
Training Type: Powerlifting
Fav Exercise: bench press
Reputation: 11032
jp_ottawa is a dedicated contributorjp_ottawa is a dedicated contributorjp_ottawa is a dedicated contributorjp_ottawa is a dedicated contributorjp_ottawa is a dedicated contributorjp_ottawa is a dedicated contributorjp_ottawa is a dedicated contributorjp_ottawa is a dedicated contributorjp_ottawa is a dedicated contributorjp_ottawa is a dedicated contributorjp_ottawa is a dedicated contributor
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Byrd View Post
To really answer this question fully, I really need to know how you set up on the bench.
1. How is your arch?
2. Where is your foot placement?
3. Are you able to keep your shoulder blades together, and lats tight?
4. Are you brining the bar down with the lats, or are you losing your arch?
5. What is your bar travel on the way up? Is it straight up, or is it in an arch?

The bar travel will not be perfect every time, but you need to know what your strongest groove is. You are right with the concept that there is no need to add bands/chains untill you can move the given weight as quickly as it needs to be. Its not about how much weight you move, but more about the explosiveness you complete the lifts with. To give you a reference point, I use 205 when I am doing some Dynamic effort work. I have benched well over 700lbs in a shirt. Most people are shocked with the amount of weight you can add to your benchpress in just a few weeks of working on set up and form.
Thank you, these are very good points.

Arch: for my arch, I focus on upper back, and can fit a 6'' foamroller under my back. My bodyweight is mostly on my traps, but it tends to shift downward as a pull the bar down.

Foot placement: my feet are placed flat, past the bench. If I tuck my feet under my body, I can't keep them flat (the meets I go to follow IPF rules).

Shoulder blades: to get tight delts, I try to pull the bar apart at all times during the lift. to practice, I take a mini band, and pull it apart with my wrists as I bench.

Lats: that's a weak point for me. How can I practice keeping my lats tight as a pull the bar down, and maintain my arch?

Bar travel: I press the bar in a straight line as much as possible. other guys like to push towards the rack, but I find it easier just to press up.

I'm hoping you are right and I can add some pounds to my bench by getting my setup right.
__________________
---------------------
"PRove the impossible"
jp_ottawa is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
barbell, dynamic, method, westside


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Westside Barbell Template BendtheBar Powerlifting & Strength Training 11 06-05-2013 03:44 AM
How I understand Westside barbell template- RobMoriRB Powerlifting & Strength Training 8 07-18-2012 07:55 PM
3 day Westside Barbell Split BendtheBar Powerlifting & Strength Training 0 06-10-2012 09:23 AM
Westside Barbell or Wendler's 5/3/1 5kgLifter Powerlifting & Strength Training 10 05-12-2012 12:10 AM
This is Westside Barbell BendtheBar Powerlifting & Strength Training 11 01-21-2012 11:12 AM

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:43 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.