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-   -   Does Westside work for RAW lifters? (http://www.muscleandbrawn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7168)

LtL 08-25-2011 11:10 AM

Does Westside work for RAW lifters?
 
Title says it all. Does it work? What changes need to be made?

LtL

Fazc 08-25-2011 11:15 AM

1) Weak point training doesn't work if you're piss weak everywhere.

2) Heavy singles on rotating lifts put unneccesary strain on the joints, which can be avoided simply by rotating reps on the contested lifts.

3) The best raw and single ply lifters still do more traditional lifting. WSB is predominantly an american and internet phenomenom. It's a fad for most people and nothing more, just like HIT was 20 years ago, just like HG was after that.

4) Nothing beats basic work on the contested lifts. The genuinely strongest that ever lived, Coan, Confessore, Kazmaeir, Karworski, Hepburn, Anderson all got to where they were with heavy lifting on the contested lifts, cycled with poundage/reps and volume. Just because WSB is in fashion now doesn't mean it can discount what worked for those guys who were genuinely strong; not suited and pinned to the gills strong, but genuinely strong.

5) Pinning a fat guy with as many steroids as you can lay your hands on, while slingshotting aforementioned fat guy into a supertight triple ply suit. Then getting a contraption to walk the bar out for him, and the suit to do most of the lifting for him and then getting a judge to actually pass this travesty to the sport....

... is not everyones idea of being super strong.

Isaku900 08-25-2011 11:19 AM

Becky Rich went from a 760 total to an 826 total at 132, then dropped a weight class and upped her total to 854.

using westside, raw, natural.

OMG!!!!!!!!! clearly doesn't work for a raw lifter.

She wrote an article about in Power.

if someone is piss weak they shouldn't be using advanced programming anyways.

LtL 08-25-2011 11:35 AM

I'll say this for Westdie as a RAW lifter:

- Too many bench special exercises got me progress but I got weak at the bottom end. Shocker.
- Deadlifting less often and doing lots of posterior chain assistance has improved my deadlift.
- Heavy singles for max effort is not good for joints or for your psyche if you miss. Doubles and triples have generally worked better for me.

I probably have more to say but will come back to this later.

LtL

BendtheBar 08-25-2011 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LtL (Post 164774)
Title says it all. Does it work? What changes need to be made?

LtL

First and foremost they need to understand that geared lifters train differently than raw lifters. Raw lifters don't have assistance in the hole or off the chest. They need to work assistance work/weaknesses accordingly.

Second, training heavy each weak is much easier if you're using even a minimal amount of support gear. I can't train bench press heavy more than once every 6-8 weeks raw any more. With a Sling Shot I am able to train it heavy every week and I feel no strains at all. A little support goes a long way - at least for me. This probably won't be as much of an issue for an intermediate who is still experience rapid progression. Mileage may vary.

Third, they need to stop lifting like they are training in gear. Don't jump to super wide stance squats without understanding what the heck you're doing, and how the gear helps the lifter.

The question for me is more about training level. Westside lifters are all advanced lifters who train in gear. I am not sold on it being the best approach for raw natural intermediates. As an intermediate I was still generally weak all over. I certainly had weaknesses, but I didn't always have the insight to truly understand what they were or if I was missing something.

Advanced lifters can train how they want to train....they know their bodies and limitations better than I do.

I am not discounting the fact that many things can be learned from Westside.

Certainly raw lifters make progress on it. Most hardcore lifters will progress on just about anything. But when lifting raw and edging closer to that advanced level, if you can lift heavy every week then go for it. I can't.

Off Road 08-25-2011 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fazc (Post 164776)
1) Weak point training doesn't work if you're piss weak everywhere.

This

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isaku900 (Post 164777)
if someone is piss weak they shouldn't be using advanced programming anyways.

and this.

gaspers04 08-25-2011 07:40 PM

I feel that it work for me. My injuries had nothing to do with WS training principals. If my r/c would stay healthy I feel that I would continue to be making gains....that is all.

ILoveLifting 08-28-2011 11:15 AM

Are we talking about a conjugate program working for raw lifters or are we talking about WSB's conjugate working for raw lifters?

hulkhires 08-31-2011 07:59 AM

Westside principles work, just not the same movements as they use. I believe in a blend of old school principles and westside.

I wrote an article Hulk Training Systems: Raw Squat Adaptation It talks about using some of WS methods.

LtL 08-31-2011 08:27 AM

Nice article Hulk and it pretty much agrees with what I've found: choose your exercises carefully, use added resistance/lightening methods sparingly and keep box height just below parallel.

LtL


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