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Old 03-28-2013, 12:03 PM   #11
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Chad Wesley Smith:

"HE CONJUGATE SYSTEM DONE IN THE MANNER POPULARIZED BY WESTSIDE BARBELL IS NOT THE OPTIMAL TRAINING SYSTEM FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF RAW STRENGTH."
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Old 03-28-2013, 12:05 PM   #12
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But when lifting raw and edging closer to that advanced level, if you can lift heavy every week then go for it. I can't.
Found out I could. It just took some smart tinkering.
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Old 03-28-2013, 12:07 PM   #13
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here is the article

The Bench Shirt Is Being Pulled Over Your Eyes - Juggernaut Training Systems - Juggernaut Training Systems


I have to admit I agree with some of the things he says, and disagree with others. Gear vs Raw is stupid. No need to argue over it, hell not even fair to try and compare. Lift, enjoy it!
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Old 03-28-2013, 12:09 PM   #14
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Try and arrived to your own conclusion!!!
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Old 03-28-2013, 12:10 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by J_Byrd View Post
No need to argue over it, hell not even fair to try and compare. Lift, enjoy it!
^ Truth.

Same with muscle building workouts and eating plans. Life is short on enjoyment. If you do what you enjoy, you are more likely to succeed at what you do.

None of this is life or death. If you learn your body and make adjustments a plan usually comes to you.
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Old 03-28-2013, 12:15 PM   #16
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the russians (and Stan), are the strongest raw lifters in the world. I think the russians just work the hell out of the main lifts: squat, bench and deadlift. little to no variations. No boxes, no boards, etc. I think stan does similar.
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Old 03-28-2013, 12:15 PM   #17
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Read this topic today on LRB. I don't agree with everything he says, but I do find it interesting. So, posting this just to add to the 'excitement'

" Here's the deal then. If WSB WORKED for raw lifters then eventually raw lifters would gravitate towards it because as noted, the proof shows up in the pudding. Yet all of the elite raw lifters I know, train pretty similarly. They manage their cycles, peak, and vary their intensity and volume. Again, all shit that has been done for decades and has been PROVEN to "work".

If you're going to run off at the mouth about geared lifters being stronger, or a methodology being better, then you'd better have some god damn proof of that. You'd better show that a certain method "works" better. Again, "works" means that the result is the same the great majority of the time, and that your guys best other guys using your methods.

I personally think the WSB method is the preferred method for most geared lifters because it "works" in that regard. It produces big geared numbers. However it does not "work" for raw training."
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Old 03-28-2013, 12:48 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill View Post
the russians (and Stan), are the strongest raw lifters in the world. I think the russians just work the hell out of the main lifts: squat, bench and deadlift. little to no variations. No boxes, no boards, etc. I think stan does similar.
Yep, I also read along the way that was pretty much what Stan did as well.

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Originally Posted by Off Road View Post
Read this topic today on LRB. I don't agree with everything he says, but I do find it interesting. So, posting this just to add to the 'excitement'

" Here's the deal then. If WSB WORKED for raw lifters then eventually raw lifters would gravitate towards it because as noted, the proof shows up in the pudding. Yet all of the elite raw lifters I know, train pretty similarly. They manage their cycles, peak, and vary their intensity and volume. Again, all shit that has been done for decades and has been PROVEN to "work".

If you're going to run off at the mouth about geared lifters being stronger, or a methodology being better, then you'd better have some god damn proof of that. You'd better show that a certain method "works" better. Again, "works" means that the result is the same the great majority of the time, and that your guys best other guys using your methods.

I personally think the WSB method is the preferred method for most geared lifters because it "works" in that regard. It produces big geared numbers. However it does not "work" for raw training."
Who wrote that? I would tend to agree with them.

The thing about WS is those guys at WS dont compete raw. WS is more than what you read in a book, it is molded for each lifter at WS to fit their needs.

With that being said, I dont train WS. Just felt like it wouldnt work for me. I train a lot closer to the "old school" way of thinking. It has worked fine for me. Moving down to Florida will put me training with a different group of guys. Many of which are stronger and have much more knowledge than me. My plan? Shut up and listen. I would suggest that most people do the same, might actually learn something.
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Old 03-28-2013, 01:18 PM   #19
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Who wrote that?
LIFT-RUN-BANG

Entertaining blog and I agree with most [not all] of what he says. I think his general message is a good one but I get really tired of all that "Alpha Male" crap. True Alpha Males could give a crap about being an Alpha Male and certainly wouldn't blog about it. But that's another topic. . .
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Old 03-28-2013, 01:34 PM   #20
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Regarding his point, I tend to agree. Westside works. With that said, I don't know many pure raw lifters personally who have mastered Westside and reached near-elite levels.

It's a chicken and egg thing for me. Do raw lifters tend to avoid Westside because it appears more gear-centric, or is Westside simply not the most efficient method for raw lifters?

I tend to think that successful raw lifters could use just about any "method" and be successful. I am fairly confident I could thrive on Westside. I think we tend to forget that templates are merely starting points. We look at Westside as a template and destination rather than a starting point. Louie, or any other trainer worth their salt, knows that the real work starts after a person is given a template, and not from the template itself. Results are created from needs-based modifications.

Having trained heavy with frequency for quite a while, in some ways I don't see Westside as being that dramatically different from what I did...sans speed work. I learned the art of training heavy each week - and it is truly an art.

I think it takes time to learn, whether you are geared or raw, or squatting heavy once or 6x a week.
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