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Old 08-21-2011, 01:13 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Fazc View Post
These numbers get the same crap thrown at them as the 'muscular potential' numbers that Butt presented.

The naysayers usually come with the same credibility as well.
That sums it up.

I've been attacked several times for posting these numbers, usually by folks who don't know that the lifter in the video squatting 900 pounds is wearing a squat suit that stands up my itself.

No disrespect meant to geared lifters of course.
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Old 08-21-2011, 01:16 PM   #12
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Steve, I'm not referring to an ELITE total -- I'm referring to a total that would put you in as a "Class I" lifter. Are you saying that a 1375lb total is an unrealistic threshold (using the table you posted in the 275lb weight class) to draw the line between an intermediate and advanced lifter? Again, consider the other criteria that the author references: 5 years training and 10 meets under your belt. I don't feel that is unreasonable.
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Old 08-21-2011, 01:38 PM   #13
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Steve, I'm not referring to an ELITE total -- I'm referring to a total that would put you in as a "Class I" lifter.
Regarding my question for you...I wasn't really referencing totals. I was asking about the 5 years and 10 meets you referenced. I didn't understand what you meant when you said they "all do apply." I didn't understand what you meant they applied to or for?

You referenced the table:

Quote:
if you are using a table for a raw, tested federation.
I did not understand what numbers of meets had to do with totals and lifting level.


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Are you saying that a 1375lb total is an unrealistic threshold (using the table you posted in the 275lb weight class) to draw the line between an intermediate and advanced lifter?
I didn't say that at all. I don't really consider totals when looking at advanced lifters. To me an advanced lifter has run out linear progression, moved past and hit very challenging walls and real stall periods, and has had to ask themselves...now what the heck do I do?

Obviously there are many intermediate lifters on forums who believe that they have hit these challenging walls when they aren't even close yet. You know when you hit them. I hit a 6 month period on squats where I didn't progress no matter what I did. That was 18 months ago. I don't think I became an advanced lifter myself until I was able to figure out how the heck to overcome that challenge.

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Again, consider the other criteria that the author references: 5 years training and 10 meets under your belt. I don't feel that is unreasonable.
Meets I disagree with. I know dozens of natural bodybuilders who could compete in powerlifting at elite level, or elite level.

Time...It is dependent on the lifter as well. So few lifters actually train hard enough for 5 straight years that a number doesn't mean much to me either.

LTL and Jwood are two great examples. Once they started training hard for powerlifting, their numbers skyrocketed. They haven't reached those seemingly hard walls yet but probably will within 12-18 months.

5 years is reasonable. Again, for me it all comes down to if they are able to progress once things go to hell.

I think you can have a Masters total but not have an "advanced" mindset and approach.
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Old 08-21-2011, 02:45 PM   #14
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Simply stated Aurik...I thought you initially had said you need a certain number of meets to qualify for elite level. I think I misread what you said.
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Old 08-21-2011, 03:39 PM   #15
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Thanks BtB, those numbers make a lot more sense to me.
For my weight, the originally quoted 1500 total would put me in the Elite catagory.

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Old 08-21-2011, 04:56 PM   #16
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The context of the article was "at what point should I consider myself an advanced lifter and consider myself ready for an advanced program?" and the article was primarily written with powerlifters as its intended audience. My response was not intended to suggest that you needed anything other than to show up at a meet and get a total that exceeded the minimum elite qualifying total. I am fully aware that there are bodybuilders who could go into a PL meet and put up an elite total; that wasn't the point I was trying to address.

The point I was trying to address is, "what criteria should an individual use to decide if he or she is ready to tackle an advanced powerlifting program?". I still feel that my oroginal 3 criteria are valid; a certain amount of training time, a certain number of meets under your belt, and a certain strength threshold. I never suggested or intended to suggest that if you don't meet all of these criteria you're any less of a lifter or less entitled to a given classification.

You specifically mentioned a number of superstrong bodybuilders; while I have no doubt they are capable of big numbers in a meet, do you feel they know enough about PL'ing to know how to best tailor their program to target their weaknesses? Unless they have specifically trained in the 1-3 rep range they might not know where these weaknesses are. Again, this boils down to experience with the PL side of the coin.
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Old 08-26-2011, 05:08 AM   #17
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Just 625 pounds off Elite then Glad you posted those figures, gives me something to aim for. As I mentioned in the shoutbox, I am in Class IV which actually makes me feel good oddly enough. I can now aim for 932 pounds for class III (I am 190 pounds) which is a damn sight nearer than 1,000. It's mainly psychological but good news nonetheless.

Noob questions: 1: What constitutes gear? I wear a belt only.
2: With a total of approx 846, how likely am I to reach 932 in 7 months if I train hard and do things the right way?
Basically, what kind of improvements can one expect when they start to solve their weaknesses systematically?
I know that my hamstrings need work which is why I am now doing Good Mornings as well as leg curls.
I know my back needs improving so pulls and chins and rows are more important than ever.
Triceps need work so close grip BP and dips are in.
Strong shoulders are always good so push presses and 1 arm dumbbell presses are in.

I am definitely going to do at least the base part of Smolov sometime in the next few months once I am happy with my general conditioning. Would like to run for an hour without stopping. (just something I've always wanted to do).
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Old 08-26-2011, 07:01 AM   #18
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Kuyt,

"Gear" or more accurately "Supportive Gear" generally means stuff like bench shirts, squat suits, and deadlift suits. Generally if it's not allowed in a "raw" lifting division, it's considered gear.

2) Very likely. With the right program and attitude, an intermediate lifter can GENERALLY expect to put 5lbs onto his bench and military presses per month, and 10lbs onto his squat and deadlift. YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary).
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Old 08-26-2011, 07:13 AM   #19
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2: With a total of approx 846, how likely am I to reach 932 in 7 months if I train hard and do things the right way?
Basically, what kind of improvements can one expect when they start to solve their weaknesses systematically?
Very likely. I would expect you to hit 950-1000.
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Old 08-26-2011, 07:17 AM   #20
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Kuyt,

"Gear" or more accurately "Supportive Gear" generally means stuff like bench shirts, squat suits, and deadlift suits. Generally if it's not allowed in a "raw" lifting division, it's considered gear.

2) Very likely. With the right program and attitude, an intermediate lifter can GENERALLY expect to put 5lbs onto his bench and military presses per month, and 10lbs onto his squat and deadlift. YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary).
Thank you Aurik. A 25 lb rise a month would be phenomenal. Though my squat and deadlift did rise 22 lb each in the space of 6 weeks once I started getting serious about the whole thing. (By serious I mean better attitude, approach to training, nutrition and realistic goal setting) Understanding the difference between training and working out essentially.
The 7 month figure is just something I added as that is when my 30th birthday will be.
I am careful not to 'expect' a rise of 25 lb or any set figure and to just train hard, do as many things right as I can and get better in increments.
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