Muscle and Brawn Forums
 

Go Back   Muscle and Brawn Forums > Training > Powerlifting & Strength Training
Mark Forums Read
Register Articles Members List Search Today's Posts

Notices

Powerlifting & Strength Training Topics related to powerlifting and strength training.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-05-2011, 12:02 PM   #11
BendtheBar
Bearded Beast of Duloc
Max Brawn
Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100
Activity: 49% Activity: 49% Activity: 49%
 
BendtheBar's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 80,899
Training Exp: 20+ years
Training Type: Powerbuilding
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Fav Supp: Butter
Reputation: 2581830
BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Off Road View Post
I'm going to remember that! Kind of like a test, if you want my help then you must do this.
Exactly.

On the other hand, if they respond...can I just skip this and do more abs...

Anyway, sorry to derail the thread.
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Destroy That Which Destroys You

"Let bravery be thy choice, but not bravado."


BendtheBar is online now   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 08-05-2011, 12:10 PM   #12
Off Road
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 17,091, Level: 83 Points: 17,091, Level: 83 Points: 17,091, Level: 83
Activity: 1% Activity: 1% Activity: 1%
 
Off Road's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 7,607
Reputation: 786994
Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BendtheBar View Post
Anyway, sorry to derail the thread.
Not at all...great stuff.
Off Road is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2011, 01:43 PM   #13
Squatter
Squatatron
Max Brawn
Points: 27,624, Level: 98 Points: 27,624, Level: 98 Points: 27,624, Level: 98
Activity: 99% Activity: 99% Activity: 99%
 
Squatter's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: JimGym/CrewGym
Posts: 10,238
Training Exp: 20 Years
Training Type: Powerbuilding
Fav Exercise: Squat & Deadlift
Fav Supp: Collagen
Reputation: 734324
Squatter is one with Crom!Squatter is one with Crom!Squatter is one with Crom!Squatter is one with Crom!Squatter is one with Crom!Squatter is one with Crom!Squatter is one with Crom!Squatter is one with Crom!Squatter is one with Crom!Squatter is one with Crom!Squatter is one with Crom!
Default

I only started deadlifting a little over a year ago. I started 531 at about the same time, so it was nice to have my progression already figured out on paper for me. I followed it to the letter and the rest is history. I basically went from nothing to 455 in 9 months on 531, all the while tweaking my form with vid critiques.

I reckon my point is is that perhaps a newb to deadlifting should follow a structured routine like 531 if not for his/her whole program, maybe just the deadlifts.
__________________
My Favorite Part Of Lifting Is Having The Opportunity
Meet PR's: (May 2014)
Squat 475 lbs
Bench: 286 lbs
Deadlift: 501 lbs
Total: 1262 lbs
Age: 50

Gym PR's:
Squat: 495 lbs
Bench: 295 lbs
Deadlift: 520 lbs
Total: 1310 Lbs
Age 50
Squatter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2011, 03:39 AM   #14
MikeM
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 12,864, Level: 74 Points: 12,864, Level: 74 Points: 12,864, Level: 74
Activity: 13% Activity: 13% Activity: 13%
 
MikeM's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 3,831
Training Exp: in 3rd year
Training Type: Powerlifting
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Fav Supp: Food
Reputation: 290547
MikeM is an elite memberMikeM is an elite memberMikeM is an elite memberMikeM is an elite memberMikeM is an elite memberMikeM is an elite memberMikeM is an elite memberMikeM is an elite memberMikeM is an elite memberMikeM is an elite memberMikeM is an elite member
Default

Mr. Miyagi! Sick pull! He's the man. Good luck for the rest of us!

As for pulling only with 5-3-1, that's great if you have your form down. If you don't, 5-3-1 will kill your back as it encourages too much too fast, unless you are uber pessimistic in your initial programming.

Just saying, I think less is more with your back. For what that's worth from me and my pitiful deadlift.
MikeM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2011, 09:51 AM   #15
BendtheBar
Bearded Beast of Duloc
Max Brawn
Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100
Activity: 49% Activity: 49% Activity: 49%
 
BendtheBar's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 80,899
Training Exp: 20+ years
Training Type: Powerbuilding
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Fav Supp: Butter
Reputation: 2581830
BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squatter View Post
I only started deadlifting a little over a year ago. I started 531 at about the same time, so it was nice to have my progression already figured out on paper for me. I followed it to the letter and the rest is history. I basically went from nothing to 455 in 9 months on 531, all the while tweaking my form with vid critiques.

I reckon my point is is that perhaps a newb to deadlifting should follow a structured routine like 531 if not for his/her whole program, maybe just the deadlifts.
I think that's an important point Squatter. Progression is often not understood by many. I find that everyday in answering novice questions. It's just RARELY part of a workout. 99% of workouts are "3 sexts by X reps".

Having a structure teaches while also challenging.
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Destroy That Which Destroys You

"Let bravery be thy choice, but not bravado."


BendtheBar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2011, 09:56 AM   #16
BendtheBar
Bearded Beast of Duloc
Max Brawn
Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100
Activity: 49% Activity: 49% Activity: 49%
 
BendtheBar's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 80,899
Training Exp: 20+ years
Training Type: Powerbuilding
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Fav Supp: Butter
Reputation: 2581830
BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
Mr. Miyagi! Sick pull! He's the man. Good luck for the rest of us!

As for pulling only with 5-3-1, that's great if you have your form down. If you don't, 5-3-1 will kill your back as it encourages too much too fast, unless you are uber pessimistic in your initial programming.

Just saying, I think less is more with your back. For what that's worth from me and my pitiful deadlift.
Another good point. Rapid progression with poor form is a train wreck.
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Destroy That Which Destroys You

"Let bravery be thy choice, but not bravado."


BendtheBar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2011, 10:10 AM   #17
Off Road
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 17,091, Level: 83 Points: 17,091, Level: 83 Points: 17,091, Level: 83
Activity: 1% Activity: 1% Activity: 1%
 
Off Road's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 7,607
Reputation: 786994
Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!
Default

I don't see 5/3/1 as a fast progression scheme, in fact I think it is quite the opposite. At its core is is slow yearly progressions.
Off Road is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2011, 11:19 AM   #18
BendtheBar
Bearded Beast of Duloc
Max Brawn
Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100
Activity: 49% Activity: 49% Activity: 49%
 
BendtheBar's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 80,899
Training Exp: 20+ years
Training Type: Powerbuilding
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Fav Supp: Butter
Reputation: 2581830
BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Off Road View Post
I don't see 5/3/1 as a fast progression scheme, in fact I think it is quite the opposite. At its core is is slow yearly progressions.
I might have stepped in over my head with my last statement. I've never used Wendler's and am not even sure what the progression rate is. My statement was meant to be more general, as in very rapid progression with poor form.

If we're talking expectations, once I get a trainee on board with form, I expect them to squat 275-315 (1RM) during their first year. That is, the first year once they get past the initial 2-4 months of slow progression and working on form.

I am merely for very slow progression while a trainee grows accustomed to a lift, gets their stabilizers in check, and gets major form flaws worked out. After that I want to see them push each week.

After this one year of solid gains point, I personally am for a more methodical rate of progression. Perhaps Wendlers fit this bill. Things change after beginner gains. The game becomes different as a trainee enters "Stage 2" of their journey.

Unfortunately, few lifters eat and train properly during this first year, so my expectations might seem like too much. I don't believe they are.

A methodical approach makes sense at this time for recreational lifters who are not in it (yet) for max strength. But I'm sure we can all agree, each intermediate lifter is different so programming can be a little more tricky at this point. Some are naturally strong and can deadlift 500 in their first 2 years without batting an eye.
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Destroy That Which Destroys You

"Let bravery be thy choice, but not bravado."



Last edited by BendtheBar; 08-07-2011 at 11:23 AM.
BendtheBar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2011, 11:45 AM   #19
Off Road
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 17,091, Level: 83 Points: 17,091, Level: 83 Points: 17,091, Level: 83
Activity: 1% Activity: 1% Activity: 1%
 
Off Road's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 7,607
Reputation: 786994
Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!
Default

You are exactly right BtB, of course you know your stuff.

Wendler's 5/3/1 is really not for beginners because the progression is painfully slow. It really is meant more for guys that have used up their linear gains and need to focus on long periods of progression. If you look at the deadlift, you'd start with 90% of your 1RM and use that new number for your training max. For a 400 lb deadlifter, it will take about 4 months to get back to 100% of your actual max for your training max, and you are still only using a percentage of it for training purposes.
Off Road is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2011, 11:58 AM   #20
Fazc
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 14,403, Level: 77 Points: 14,403, Level: 77 Points: 14,403, Level: 77
Activity: 36% Activity: 36% Activity: 36%
 

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: U.K
Posts: 5,554
Training Exp: 12+ years
Training Type: Powerlifting
Fav Exercise: Bench Press
Fav Supp: Chicken
Reputation: 420568
Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!
Default

Also we have to consider Wendlers motivation for this programme, this came from a prior history of very high volume, high intensity training with an emphasis on rotating exercises, weak point training and equipped lifting.

A switch to a more moderate lifting schedule which focuses on the lifts, no real exercise rotation, just varying the sets/reps which is by far the best approach to the raw lifts. This allowed him to spend time on conditioning and as you can see by his recent pictures he looks in much better shape.

That's something to bear in mind when you pick your own routine as well. What stage of lifting are you in? What are your goals? What is your training history, both within the last few months and the last few years. This is all going to effect whether 5/3/1 is for you. For any young guys reading who are looking to get as strong as possible I don't think such a moderate routine is the most efficient way, Wendler, OffRoad, BtB and most guys who prosper on such relatively low frequency are by far and away in a different position lifting-wise to the beginner looking to build a strong foundation. For those beginners looking to get strong a more traditional approach would work better.

Last edited by Fazc; 08-07-2011 at 12:01 PM.
Fazc is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
deadlift


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The "No Deadlift" Deadlift Program BendtheBar Articles 25 01-21-2013 09:25 AM
660 X 12 Deadlift Tannhauser Powerlifting & Strength Training 1 05-01-2012 03:13 PM
How not to deadlift BendtheBar Powerlifting & Strength Training 6 04-19-2012 07:43 AM
Deadlift help LtL Powerlifting & Strength Training 23 04-04-2010 09:10 AM
deadlift.... nighttrain General Board 27 02-17-2010 10:54 AM

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:28 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.