Muscle and Brawn Forums
 

Go Back   Muscle and Brawn Forums > Training > Powerlifting & Strength Training
Mark Forums Read
Register Articles Members List Search Today's Posts

Notices

Powerlifting & Strength Training Topics related to powerlifting and strength training.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-18-2011, 02:10 PM   #1
BendtheBar
Bearded Beast of Duloc
Max Brawn
Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100
Activity: 49% Activity: 49% Activity: 49%
 
BendtheBar's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 79,944
Training Exp: 20+ years
Training Type: Powerbuilding
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Fav Supp: Butter
Reputation: 2584002
BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!
Default Quads and Powerlifting

Carl asked a question so I thought I would elaborate:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl
dont want to thread Jack, but could you elaborate on that Steve, how do strength athletes neglect the quads if they are squatting, or do you mean they neglect assistance exercises for the quads ??
Very rarely do you see powerlifters do any direct work for quads. Most assistance work if for hamstrings, abs and lower back. This is the Westside style template:

http://muscleandbrawn.com/forums/pow...-template.html

I am not implying that quad work is necessarily needed for all lifters, but I have read several articles recently by powerlifters who have talked about adding quad work to their assistance exercises.
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Destroy That Which Destroys You

"Let bravery be thy choice, but not bravado."


BendtheBar is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 07-18-2011, 02:45 PM   #2
Carl1174
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 14,417, Level: 77 Points: 14,417, Level: 77 Points: 14,417, Level: 77
Activity: 43% Activity: 43% Activity: 43%
 
Carl1174's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: South Wales - UK
Posts: 4,786
Training Exp: 3-4 years
Training Type: Fullbody
Reputation: 37394
Carl1174 is a lifting machineCarl1174 is a lifting machineCarl1174 is a lifting machineCarl1174 is a lifting machineCarl1174 is a lifting machineCarl1174 is a lifting machineCarl1174 is a lifting machineCarl1174 is a lifting machineCarl1174 is a lifting machineCarl1174 is a lifting machineCarl1174 is a lifting machine
Default

Steve do you think the squat stance would have anything to do with it. A lot of lifters tend to exaggerate the stance for the very high poundages as there is a smaller rom and it is more beneficial when geared, obviously the wider the stance the more the hams and posterior chain come in to account. I have never lifted like that, but its almost as if the quads are being used secondary.

Personally I love front squats for the quads and with a shoulder width stance and getting right down it really hits the quads well. Those, regular back squats and deads seem to work fine with a bit of hammie work, but then Im NO powerlifter.

at the end of the day, the quad straighten the leg, so i would have thought it was prudent to train that muscle, even if it is just assisting the posterior chain for powerlifters.

Carl.
Carl1174 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2011, 02:58 PM   #3
BendtheBar
Bearded Beast of Duloc
Max Brawn
Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100
Activity: 49% Activity: 49% Activity: 49%
 
BendtheBar's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 79,944
Training Exp: 20+ years
Training Type: Powerbuilding
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Fav Supp: Butter
Reputation: 2584002
BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl1174 View Post
Steve do you think the squat stance would have anything to do with it. A lot of lifters tend to exaggerate the stance for the very high poundages as there is a smaller rom and it is more beneficial when geared, obviously the wider the stance the more the hams and posterior chain come in to account. I have never lifted like that, but its almost as if the quads are being used secondary.

Personally I love front squats for the quads and with a shoulder width stance and getting right down it really hits the quads well. Those, regular back squats and deads seem to work fine with a bit of hammie work, but then Im NO powerlifter.

at the end of the day, the quad straighten the leg, so i would have thought it was prudent to train that muscle, even if it is just assisting the posterior chain for powerlifters.

Carl.
Good point.

I have never trained in a suit, or sumo stance, so I can't speak from personal experience.

During sumo deadlifts I use more of my quads but again, this is raw. Once the bar is slightly off the ground it's all about hip drive for me.

Maybe someone like JB or Isaku will chime in.
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Destroy That Which Destroys You

"Let bravery be thy choice, but not bravado."


BendtheBar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2011, 03:03 PM   #4
LtL
SHFW
Max Brawn
Points: 36,892, Level: 100 Points: 36,892, Level: 100 Points: 36,892, Level: 100
Activity: 17% Activity: 17% Activity: 17%
 
LtL's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Reading, Berkshire, UK
Posts: 12,019
Training Exp: 5 years
Training Type: Powerlifting
Fav Exercise: Deadlifts
Fav Supp: Endurance BCAA
Reputation: 455740
LtL is one with Crom!LtL is one with Crom!LtL is one with Crom!LtL is one with Crom!LtL is one with Crom!LtL is one with Crom!LtL is one with Crom!LtL is one with Crom!LtL is one with Crom!LtL is one with Crom!LtL is one with Crom!
Default

Whilst I do believe that posterior chain work is important for RAW lifters as well, I agree that there should be more balance with quad work. RAW squatting invves a lot less lower back, glute and hamstring than geared squatting. I think this is more pronounced when talking about multiply gear. From what I've seen of guys in my gym in single ply, it seems to be a bit of a middle ground between the two.

I personally have been trying to get some single leg dumbell quad' assistance in to get some hypertrophy without massively loading the joints. Seems to do ok so far. Only one will tell.

LtL
LtL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2011, 04:14 PM   #5
Fazc
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 14,403, Level: 77 Points: 14,403, Level: 77 Points: 14,403, Level: 77
Activity: 36% Activity: 36% Activity: 36%
 

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: U.K
Posts: 5,554
Training Exp: 12+ years
Training Type: Powerlifting
Fav Exercise: Bench Press
Fav Supp: Chicken
Reputation: 420568
Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!
Default

There has been a tremendous amount of rhetoric about WSB passed around in recent years, in fact in some circles "doing a powerlifting routine" equates to WSB and only WSB. Which is madness, frankly. All this nonsense, and it is nonsense for most people, about rotating exercises and the exaggerated importance of assistance exercises is not new. Olympic lifters have been doing essentially this for decades now. However what is new is aspiring powerlifters attempting to perform this 'conjugate' approach while they are still squatting and deadllifting 400.

A lifter squatting 400 does not need additional isolation hamstring work or to rotate exercises, they need additional squat work. There is nothing, absolutely nothing which additional GHRs could accomplish, that can not be accomplished by doing a few hard sets of squats as often as recovery allows and repeating that untill strong(er).

However like any good internet phenomenom it'll take for a few years, rational people will learn some stuff, bb.com (or equivalent) nutswingers will over exaggerate the importance of it and then it will gradually wane in popularity untill a new internet phenomenom sweeps through online forums. At which point the younger teens embrace that and declare everything their older peers are doing as outdated. It is the law of the world(wide web).

(The above paragraph can be applied to any clique lifting system, from HG to HIT to XFit to Dino Training, you name it).

Powerlifting existed before WSB and will do long after people come to their senses and regain a more traditional approach which is ability approriate and meant for raw trainees.
Fazc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2011, 07:38 PM   #6
J_Byrd
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 21,229, Level: 91 Points: 21,229, Level: 91 Points: 21,229, Level: 91
Activity: 28% Activity: 28% Activity: 28%
 
J_Byrd's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: St. Johns, FL
Posts: 5,877
Training Exp: 15
Training Type: Powerlifting
Fav Exercise: Squat
Reputation: 457971
J_Byrd is one with Crom!J_Byrd is one with Crom!J_Byrd is one with Crom!J_Byrd is one with Crom!J_Byrd is one with Crom!J_Byrd is one with Crom!J_Byrd is one with Crom!J_Byrd is one with Crom!J_Byrd is one with Crom!J_Byrd is one with Crom!J_Byrd is one with Crom!
Default

In a short answer...dont forget your Quads!!!! Lots of people will tell you that its a secondary muscle, but I dont feel thats true. I think the closer your stance is, the more quad you use. You dont see many big squaters with little quads do you?
__________________
Best meet lifts: 1040squat, 705 bench, 730 deadlift
Best total: 1040-680-730=2450
Pro Total@308

Proudly sponsored by

http://muscleandbrawn.com

http://bigworkoutplan.com/

http://www.andersonpowerlifting.com/Default.asp


"This is about strength, not getting a 10.0 form score from the Russian judge" Steve Shaw
J_Byrd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2011, 07:45 PM   #7
gaspers04
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 17,264, Level: 83 Points: 17,264, Level: 83 Points: 17,264, Level: 83
Activity: 3% Activity: 3% Activity: 3%
 
gaspers04's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: North Central Illinois
Posts: 5,501
Training Exp: 20 yrs.
Training Type: Westside
Fav Exercise: All of Them! Bench, hehe.
Fav Supp: Food
Reputation: 186096
gaspers04 is a master membergaspers04 is a master membergaspers04 is a master membergaspers04 is a master membergaspers04 is a master membergaspers04 is a master membergaspers04 is a master membergaspers04 is a master membergaspers04 is a master membergaspers04 is a master membergaspers04 is a master member
Default

I like to work them directly...300lbs extensions are cool, just because....
__________________



Supplements
M & S's Isofuel Chocolate, MGN's Dextrose,Universal's Beef Aminos and AAEFX's Kre-Alkalyn.
gaspers04 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2011, 02:28 PM   #8
5kgLifter
Kettlebells' Angel !!!!
Max Brawn
Points: 23,645, Level: 94 Points: 23,645, Level: 94 Points: 23,645, Level: 94
Activity: 11% Activity: 11% Activity: 11%
 
5kgLifter's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 13,927
Training Type: Other
Reputation: 646483
5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BendtheBar View Post
Good point.

I have never trained in a suit, or sumo stance, so I can't speak from personal experience.

During sumo deadlifts I use more of my quads but again, this is raw. Once the bar is slightly off the ground it's all about hip drive for me.

Maybe someone like JB or Isaku will chime in.
I have read that people who favour the normal deadlift stance over the sumo tend to come across the issue of weak inner thigh muscles when attempting sumo stance; one reason why a lifter needs a lighter load when swapping from conventional to sumo stance.
__________________
36.5 kg /80.3 lb Middle-Finger DL (right hand)...
5kgLifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2011, 03:55 PM   #9
Off Road
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 17,091, Level: 83 Points: 17,091, Level: 83 Points: 17,091, Level: 83
Activity: 1% Activity: 1% Activity: 1%
 
Off Road's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 7,606
Reputation: 786994
Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!
Default

I like to throw in a little extra quad work. It seems the focus for power lifting and athletics has swung way over to the posterior side. I think there are still some benefits to also focussing on the quads for some balance. My personal favorite is the Bulgarian Split Squat.
Off Road is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2011, 04:04 PM   #10
BendtheBar
Bearded Beast of Duloc
Max Brawn
Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100
Activity: 49% Activity: 49% Activity: 49%
 
BendtheBar's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 79,944
Training Exp: 20+ years
Training Type: Powerbuilding
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Fav Supp: Butter
Reputation: 2584002
BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!
Default

I might have to revive donkey squats.
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Destroy That Which Destroys You

"Let bravery be thy choice, but not bravado."


BendtheBar is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
powerlifting, quads


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:26 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.