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Old 09-10-2009, 06:36 PM   #1
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anyone can make leaps and bounds with drugs. I know what happens in the "real" world and so should everybody else. Heck, magazines do enough to deceive the general population
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Old 09-10-2009, 06:38 PM   #2
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anyone can make leaps and bounds with drugs. I know what happens in the "real" world and so should everybody else. Heck, magazines do enough to deceive the general population
I lifted nearly the last 8 years without gaining a single pound of mass.
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Old 09-10-2009, 06:39 PM   #3
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Old 09-10-2009, 06:40 PM   #4
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Natural limits. There's only so big you can get without drugs.
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Old 09-10-2009, 06:42 PM   #5
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hmmm, I seem to disagree. I understand that genetics and age are precursors, but with the proper damage to the muscles with the proper nutrition and the proper recovery, I feel that it is possible
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Old 09-10-2009, 06:45 PM   #6
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I've studied natural limits.

Determining Natural Bodybuilding Potential | Muscle and Brawn.

This is as much muscle as any natural will ever get. I'm right at my projected limits. Here's my article. This study was done on over 300 natural bodybuilding champions over the last 60 years.

--------------------------



Determining Natural Bodybuilding Potential

Can you determine natural bodybuilding potential? Is it possible to determine if a lifter is a natural or steroid user? The answer is yes to both questions.

The formula. The following equation is derived scientifically, studying approximately 300 winning drug-free strength training athletes and bodybuilders from 1947-2007. For more information please visit Casey Butt’s article, Your Maximum Muscular Bodyweight and Measurements.



H = Height in inches

W = Wrist circumference located at the hand side of the bony lump on the wrist (known as the styloid process)

A = Ankle circumference at the smallest measurement

BF% = The bodyfat percentage at which the ankle and wrist circumferences were taken

The information. Again, for more information on this subject, please visit Casey Butt’s Weightrainer.net.

Potential Variance. The natural bodyweight potentials listed below are derived using a wrist circumference of 7.5 inches, and an ankle circumference of 9.5 inches. These numbers are reasonable for the heaviest of natural lifters. (Note: the author’s wrist circumference is 8.0 inches, and ankle circumference is 10.0 inches at a bodyweight of 280 pounds. So you can see that for a natural lifter under 220 pounds, 7.5 and 9.5 are very reasonable numbers)

For a 0.5 differential in BOTH numbers (a lifter’s wrist is 8.0 inches and ankle is 10.0 inches instead of 7.5 and 9.5), the weight variance using the formula would be an additional 5.2 pounds of lean mass. In simple terms, for every additional inch of circumference (from either ankle, wrist, or both combined) above the potentials listed below, a lifter could have an additional 5.2 pounds of lean mass.

Again, keep in mind that the numbers used to derive natural potential (7.5 wrist circumference and 9.5 ankle circumference) are at the high end of normal for a natural bodybuilder with under 20% bodyfat. Therefore, a reasonable maximum potential variance for natural lifters from the below numbers would be plus 3 pounds. For smaller wrist/ankle boned lifters, the numbers could be smaller by up to 10 pounds.

The numbers. Using the above formula, and inserting 7.5 wrist inches and 9.5 ankle inches, we derive the following natural bodyweight lean body mass potentials for a 6% bodyfat percentage. Again, the derived numbers below are lean bodyweight, which means total bodyweight less fat. It is not total competition bodyweight including the 6% bodyfat.

The reduced formula with wrist and ankle circumferences and a 6% bodyfat percentage is…

H^1.5 (0.31037632)

Height, 66 inches = 166.4 lean body mass potential. Competition weight = 177.0 pounds

Height, 67 inches = 170.2 lean body mass potential. Competition weight = 181.1 pounds

Height, 68 inches = 174.0 lean body mass potential. Competition weight = 185.1 pounds

Height, 69 inches = 177.9 lean body mass potential. Competition weight = 189.3 pounds

Height, 70 inches = 181.8 lean body mass potential. Competition weight = 193.4 pounds

Height, 71 inches = 185.7 lean body mass potential. Competition weight = 197.6 pounds

Height, 72 inches = 189.6 lean body mass potential. Competition weight = 201.7 pounds

Height, 73 inches = 193.6 lean body mass potential. Competition weight = 206.0 pounds

Height, 74 inches = 197.6 lean body mass potential. Competition weight = 210.2 pounds

Height, 75 inches = 201.6 lean body mass potential. Competition weight = 214.5 pounds

Height, 76 inches = 205.6 lean body mass potential. Competition weight = 218.7 pounds

A personal analysis. Last year I religiously measured my bodyfat percentage as I lost weight and packed on muscle. My estimated lean body mass was 178 pounds, at a height of 5′10″. This tells me that I was approximately 4 pound shy of my natural limit. Judging from my muscularity at the time, I believe this number to be dead on.

Bottom line. It is possible for a natural lifter to exceed these numbers by a very small percentage. But, it is virtually impossible for a natural lifter to exceed their potential by more then 10 pounds. Based on ankle and wrist circumference, I think it is safe to say that a lifter who exceeds their natural potential by more than 5-10 pounds lean mass is suspect.
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Old 09-10-2009, 06:48 PM   #7
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Using the projections from the formula, my max projected lean base muscle mass is 181 pounds. I have achieve about 179.5 LBM.

Remember, those studied were genetic freaks.

Above 12% bodyfat, you might notice the formula off by a couple of pounds. But no natural has, or ever will break those barriers by more then several pounds.
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Old 09-10-2009, 06:49 PM   #8
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Wow steve thats some crazy study you did.... like the idea of a private section...
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Old 09-10-2009, 06:55 PM   #9
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Wow steve thats some crazy study you did.... like the idea of a private section...
Dr. Casey Butt did the study. I just boiled down the data to an understandable formula, and laid it out in a table.

Use the data, and you can tell who's using steroids and who isn't. If they are over the project LBM, that is.

Here's another article on the same topic:

Your Maximum Muscular Bodyweight and Measurements | Muscle and Brawn.

Using the formula, it was able to guess past champions weights with stunning accuracy. The first number is actual contest weight, the second is projected weight derived from the formula.

Clarence Ross 198 198.1
John Farbotnik 195 196.2
George Eiferman 195 195.5
Reg Park 214 214.5
John Grimek 203 203.1
Jack Delinger 195 193.3
Steve Reeves 213 214.1
Current World Champ. A 180 180.7
Current World Champ. B 175 174.6
Current National 3rd Place 174 174.0
Current National 4th Place 184 185.5

My point in all this? And back to the topic...I have realistic natural goals
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Old 09-10-2009, 07:03 PM   #10
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