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Old 03-24-2011, 06:54 AM   #1
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Default Plyometrics for powerlifting.

I had a short discussion about this with LtL and we thought it could be worthy of a thread.

I was reading a site Power Training for Sport about power training for sports and they also recommended ballistic and plyometric training. I know poerlifting isnt done to increase strength in a different sport, but for the powerlifting itself. However, I was wondering if you could increase say speed and/or power of say a vertical jump, would this have a carry over to being able to squat more.

The idea that if you can move a lower weight fast, then you can move more weight would lend itself to this, same with bench. if you can throw say a medicine ball out from your chest more powerfully could it help the bench ???

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Old 03-24-2011, 07:02 AM   #2
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Here's what I thought:

It's an interesting point and some of the big name PL'ers whose logs I follow do some form of plyometric training although it's usually for the lower body with box jumps etc. I have seen some cool footage of Brandon Lilly (308lb's lifter) and Dave Hoff (all time biggest total at 275lb's) jumping to 40"+ which is ludicrous for big guys.

I used to do plyometric training when I played Ultimate. My thinking was: I can't train to get taller, so I'll have to train to jump higher. The problem with this type of training is Risk vs Reward. So yes the jumps could imrpove your ballistic strength and bar speed and ultimately lead to a higher squat but it's just a contributory factor, it's never going to make or break your lift. So reward can be a bit hit and miss. Risk, however, is very present. When I was doing plyo' training 5-10 years ago, I weighed around 70kg's. I am now between 95-97kg's. Jumping onto an unstable platform, to potentially miss and faceplant into the platform (search it on youtube, it's funny) or just to land from that high, could very well hurt and stop you from squatting. Risk outweighs reward in my opinion.

I thought that I had read a Dave Tate article where he agreed with me on this but all I found was an old article/thread from when Dave was training at Westside talking about how he, Chuck V, etc were incorporating box jumps into my training Maybe his thinking evolved after that...

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Old 03-24-2011, 08:02 AM   #3
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My personal 2 cents is that, yes, they could help. But as LtL mentioned, there is risk v. reward at play. If you are in darn good shape, younger, and handle things like plyos much easier...then go for it. I personal feel though that there are better ways to improve your squat.

I personally fear the heck out of explosive movements. Not so much on legs, but on upper body. But that doesn't mean I am free of paranoia when it comes to the lower body. I tore a calf doing a motion that resembled a box jump.

But I understand that my fear may be misguided.
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Old 03-24-2011, 08:07 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by BendtheBar View Post
My personal 2 cents is that, yes, they could help. But as LtL mentioned, there is risk v. reward at play. If you are in darn good shape, younger, and handle things like plyos much easier...then go for it. I personal feel though that there are better ways to improve your squat.

I personally fear the heck out of explosive movements. Not so much on legs, but on upper body. But that doesn't mean I am free of paranoia when it comes to the lower body. I tore a calf doing a motion that resembled a box jump.

But I understand that my fear may be misguided.
Well i doubt id be trying them anytime soon

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Old 03-24-2011, 08:10 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Carl1174 View Post
Well i doubt id be trying them anytime soon

Carl.
I am a delicate, fragile flower. I left explosive movements in the 90's

But I would be curious what some of the powerlifters think.
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Old 03-24-2011, 08:10 AM   #6
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I went through a plyo phase, had a lfiting + plyo routine. I progressed every session and all that, it was fun too.

But I found plyo pushups were hell on my elbows. Also as Ltl mentioned for box jumps. If you land on the box, and as it gets higher, its easier to fall. If your jumping over the box and you clip your feet you will also fall. I came close to falling a few times.

I am a fan of burpees and squat jumps though.
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Old 03-24-2011, 08:12 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by BendtheBar View Post
I am a delicate, fragile flower. I left explosive movements in the 90's

But I would be curious what some of the powerlifters think.
me too

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Old 03-24-2011, 09:49 AM   #8
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For me, its mostly an indicator and something cool to do. For some it can work as a RFD tool, but its actually pretty limited in its application to powerlifting.

You can get far more specific and effective RFD from a speed deadlift due to the higher load and strain than you can from a box jump.

Personally, I think they're just cool:


louie simmons once said that if you can take 120lbs in your hands and jump to 20" you're explosive.

64kg is 141ish...oh and I was about 285ish at that time. I don't train box jumps or jumping very often and I can pretty much replicate that whenever...might be higher now actually b/c my deadlift went up...but my bodyweight went up too...after nationals i'll try it again.
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Old 03-24-2011, 10:40 AM   #9
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IMO, when using a powerlifting routine that involves primarily maximal effort singles and doubles some form of dynamic lifting must be used, otherwise youll lose too much bar speed. It is impossible to move the bar quickly under maximum weight:


http://www.elitefts.com/documents/raw_bp_solution.htm

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Old 03-24-2011, 11:04 AM   #10
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I believe increasing ROFD by plyometrics or dynamic work will carry over to your squat or bench. The thing about plyometrics is that many trainers don't know how to incorporate plyos into their programs and end up doing way too much volume which will cause some injury. But for those Who are worried about hurting themselves I think you gotta get over it. You hear alot more people, some even on MAB, who've been having some nagging injuries from lifting. There's a risk in everything.
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