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Old 12-26-2010, 02:55 PM   #11
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this helps a lot bud, I think this would be great for me also because my biggest complaint about 5/3/1 is that I do not get enough volume on my main lifts.

This is an awesome system and I will keep it in mind. Looks hardcore and I like that!
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Old 12-27-2010, 03:02 AM   #12
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this helps a lot bud, I think this would be great for me also because my biggest complaint about 5/3/1 is that I do not get enough volume on my main lifts.

This is an awesome system and I will keep it in mind. Looks hardcore and I like that!
that's one of the issues i had with it too but i still liked the concept of it improving raw strength...
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Old 02-04-2011, 01:43 AM   #13
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i know a lot of people can't stand 531 including me cause i'm used to high volume work...thats what i set out to create this bastardized version of it to see if its working...and it is...
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Old 02-04-2011, 01:45 AM   #14
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UPDATED 12/22/10
***added a new method tonite while busting my ass...

- suicide juggle
you perform a set of one rep and then rest for 10 seconds and then perform another set of 3 and then rest another 10 sec. 3rd set, 2 reps and rest 10, and 4th set perform 5 reps. i've done this tonite on inclines dbs, cg floor presses, and military rack presses and they were awesome. after the 4 sets, perform an allout 15 REST PAUSE reps.

UPDATED 1/5/11
***added new method that i will try out tonite
- overkill method
you perform a set of 6-12 reps to failure. then after that you perform 3 sets of 5 with 10-15 sec rest between sets with either the same weight as the repout or 5-10 more. then on the VERY last set...perform another repout of 6-8 REST PAUSE reps with the same weight as the weight used for 3x5 or 5-10 less. so it would look like this for incline db bench presses:
130x10 135x5-135x5-135x5 125x8RP

UPDATED 1/12/11
***added new method
- overkill method 2
you perform a repout as many reps as you can. then after some rest, perform 5 sets of 5 with a weight heavier than what you performed your repouts at with a 20-25 sec rest. so it would look like this:
db shoulder presses
100x20 120x5-120x5-120x5-125x5-125x5

UPDATED 1/14/11
STRENGTH SPECIALIZATION CYCLE


this cycle is geared towards band work and strength specialization. its taking 3 movements...each specializing in the big 3 in some way. the following can be used:


SQUAT:
box squats( using various heights depending on what needs to be focused on)
front squats
front box squats


BENCH:
pin presses
floor presses


DEADS:
deficit deads
rack pulls




the cycle for this is 3 weeks and can be done for 1-2 rotations. still following a 5-1-3 format but in this manner


WEEK 1- 5RM
WEEK 2- 1RM
WEEK 3- 3RM


then after you work up to the suggested RM, then you perform the following on either the squat, bench, or deads without bands and without the specialized movement


WEEK 1- 1x5+ 1x5
WEEK 2- 1x1+ 1x3
WEEK 3- 1x3+ 1x3


as for what numbers to use, refer to the 531 template. the repout sets and the 2nd set following that(which on 531 is the 1st set) are done. this is to RESTABILIZE after doin band work. you may want to do a set or two to ADJUST to the straight weight and let your body get used to it and then perform the following two sets. i'll be experimenting with this in two weeks...
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Old 02-04-2011, 02:27 AM   #15
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Very interesting reading Brute - your chaos method is certainly novel.
I am an amateur, so don't take offence at my following question:
You do state that the premise of this training method is to 'confuse' the muscle. But based on my reading, muscle confusion is broscience; it doesn't happen.

Could you maybe talk more on this?
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Axle clean-press: 100 kgs (220 lbs)
Bench press: 135 kgs (298 lbs) - 1st PL meet 16th October 2011
Deadlift w/Barbell: 180 kgs (397 lbs)
Deadlift w/Hexbar: 225 kgs (496 lbs)
Farmers walk: 240 kgs (530 lbs), 50 feet
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Strict OHP: 85 kgs (187 lbs) 3 reps
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Old 02-04-2011, 07:05 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Abaddon View Post
Very interesting reading Brute - your chaos method is certainly novel.
I am an amateur, so don't take offence at my following question:
You do state that the premise of this training method is to 'confuse' the muscle. But based on my reading, muscle confusion is broscience; it doesn't happen.

Could you maybe talk more on this?
sure thing but don't take offense on what i'm goin to say...

let me ask u somethin..have u tried it yourself?

muscle confusion ISN'T "broscience" as u called it(don't know what that is..)but the method of training that i use is based off not what someone told me thru a book(although some ideas were inspired)...its based off of "trial and error" and pure logic. the body gets used to one thing over time hence when 90% of gymrats do the same thing and expect the same result everytime, why? cause it worked the first time. think about it. how is it when a lifter gets on a bench program first time and they get 30-40lb increase on their bench but not the 2nd time they do it? simple. adaptation. your body was introduced to new stress and it was forced to adapt and adjust....when they do it again, its already used to what ur doin so it has no reason to adapt and adjust. i've tried this on myself and its worked over the years and i've tried it on others...its also worked.

when u change things up on a regular basis, the body can't adjust and it's forced to adapt and grow as a result in an effort to adjust. this is what i've seen over the years happen to me as well as anyone who have taken just a few of my suggestions about their training and watch it work. hell just "juggling" a few sets during a session can make a big difference...why? cause it shocks the body with the unexpected. that's what u have to do. westside barbell followed this concept for years when they rotate movements out every 2-4 weeks and again, when i did their template my numbers increased every time, why? things were constantly being changed up as their program required it which is why a lot of powerlifters use it today to constantly get stronger for competitions. when i attempted the idea of "chaos513" i saw immediate increases in my lifts weekly while my training partners were doin the same thing weekly and were staggering just to get a PR.

changing things up can be as simple as this:

- changing up how u do the lift(ie instead of doin bench- do pin presses or floor presses) creating a rotation if u want
- changing up the amount of weight ur usin(instead of working up to a max with 405...do 3 sets of 10 with 315)
- changing up the reps u do each set and/or rest periods(instead of doin 8-10, do 6-8 and maybe following it up with a repout set or keepin the reps the same but shortening the rest periods from 1 min to 30 sec)
- juggling the reps(ie. 1x6; 1x10; 1x8; 1x12)
- juggling the weight used on each set (1x315; 1x365; 1x335; 1x405; 1x350)
- or the combination of the above

i know some of what i said won't make sense because i don't quote what someone said in a book or what i read in a magazine. i had a friend that would debate my methods because of what he read vs what i have done or doin for real in the gym. what i do sometimes is drop the damn book and just try crazy ideas that sometimes work and sometimes don't. your body is a chemistry set and u have to play with it and i'm always comin up with more and more ideas in the gym that might contribute to greater strength and size gains.

i'm not saying don't read and follow what someone or what a book says, they have great ideas but to me it places limits on a lifter. what i do really doesn't have any limits. what i express here are just ideas and ways to go about them but from my experience in the gym, muscle confusion does happen and its a forgotten concept. when u try it, you'll see for yourself.

i hope this answers your question.
TB
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www.chaos513.com
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Last edited by thebrute; 02-04-2011 at 07:14 AM.
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Old 02-04-2011, 07:16 AM   #17
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It certainly does answer my question, Brute! thanks very much for going into so much detail.

For the record, I've never read a book on this subject... I've read several articles in recent months, but I never was interested in published methods. I knew what worked for me, and stuck with that.

What you've articulated here quite literally is Chaos Theory for muscle building!! I love it!

While I'm still making steady gains with my training, there are some areas where I feel I'm not progressing enough. I will use your method of non-linear weight loading and see how it works for me.

Oh, and I'm taking this quote for my sig:
"your body is a chemistry set and u have to play with it"

Thanks again man.
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MY LOG

PERSONAL RECORDS
Axle clean-press: 100 kgs (220 lbs)
Bench press: 135 kgs (298 lbs) - 1st PL meet 16th October 2011
Deadlift w/Barbell: 180 kgs (397 lbs)
Deadlift w/Hexbar: 225 kgs (496 lbs)
Farmers walk: 240 kgs (530 lbs), 50 feet
Front squat: 100 kgs (220 lbs)
Log clean-press: 100 kgs (220 lbs)
Strict OHP: 85 kgs (187 lbs) 3 reps
Tyre flip: 260 kgs (573 lbs), 100 feet
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Old 02-04-2011, 07:26 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abaddon View Post
It certainly does answer my question, Brute! thanks very much for going into so much detail.

For the record, I've never read a book on this subject... I've read several articles in recent months, but I never was interested in published methods. I knew what worked for me, and stuck with that.

What you've articulated here quite literally is Chaos Theory for muscle building!! I love it!

While I'm still making steady gains with my training, there are some areas where I feel I'm not progressing enough. I will use your method of non-linear weight loading and see how it works for me.

Oh, and I'm taking this quote for my sig:
"your body is a chemistry set and u have to play with it"

Thanks again man.
hey bro no problem. i talk to lifters all the time about what they are doin and alot of thing say "this is what works for me"...just go outside of the comfort zone one time and try something crazy bro. u know what works for u that's true enough, why not try something new then. if it fails, u have something to fall back on, right? try juggling the reps and weight u use..keep in mind, your keepin your body "off" balance...that's how u trigger strength and growth..
TB
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www.chaos513.com
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Old 06-01-2011, 11:28 AM   #19
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I want to give this a BUMP!!

Jwood is thinking of trying to put something together to give this program a try. I am in the mood for some craziness
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Old 06-01-2011, 11:40 AM   #20
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- changing up how u do the lift(ie instead of doin bench- do pin presses or floor presses) creating a rotation if u want
- changing up the amount of weight ur usin(instead of working up to a max with 405...do 3 sets of 10 with 315)
- changing up the reps u do each set and/or rest periods(instead of doin 8-10, do 6-8 and maybe following it up with a repout set or keepin the reps the same but shortening the rest periods from 1 min to 30 sec)
- juggling the reps(ie. 1x6; 1x10; 1x8; 1x12)
- juggling the weight used on each set (1x315; 1x365; 1x335; 1x405; 1x350)
- or the combination of the above
I also wanted to give this a bump, as this is pretty much the basis of my own training the past couple of years.

If the variations are tracked then this constant variety becomes a very good way to ensure progress without burn out. It might look haphazard but in reality as long as the changes are gradual and trackable, and as long as you see progress over the long term in as many variations as you are using then it'll work.

Good post, I liked that.
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