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Old 04-07-2010, 09:52 PM   #11
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I like that you mentioned C&P, that dude is really cool, i did the interview with him thats on his blog, the man is a beast and actually nice if you can look past the nail spitting


BTB i think we have a parrot lol
lol huh. i dont want a cracker lol lol
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Old 04-07-2010, 09:57 PM   #12
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lol huh. i dont want a cracker lol lol
oh no, the reason BTB invited me over here was for my thread at BB.com where i have alot of rants on similar subject matter. plus the fact that i believe old skool is the best skool
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Old 04-07-2010, 09:59 PM   #13
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oh no, the reason BTB invited me over here was for my thread at BB.com where i have alot of rants on similar subject matter. plus the fact that i believe old skool is the best skool
glad we see eye to eye then
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Old 04-08-2010, 03:21 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by kman025 View Post
good point. i think everyone should start with a 3x5 or 5x5. after they build up a base level of strength they should try new things and see what works best for them.
I highly disagree with this. A beginner should use varied rep ranges and stick to mostly low weight and high reps, jumping to 5 rep sets would push them to lift numbers beyond their form (not only non-optimal for growth but also dangerous). A beginners body isn't even accustomed to lifting weight yet ready to max out its potential (which would just be broken in a few weeks anyway)

5x5's/3x5's and 5-3-1 shouldn't even be considered until a great deal of base muscle and strength have been acquired.
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Old 04-08-2010, 07:03 AM   #15
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A true beginner needs some time on true beginner routines to learn the exercises. Some will progress fast and learn fast, and guys like this can be put in the fast lane. Most beginners though aren't in the fast lane for quite some time. One thing the old timers knew is that you need to build into more aggressive programs.

5x5's can be used after several months if the trainee has form down and is in the fast lane. I know I was more then able to handle pretty much any program after a month of training. A 5/3/1 system, on the other hand, is definitely an intermediate program.
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Old 04-08-2010, 07:13 AM   #16
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A typical golden age approach for beginners was to have them do a wholebody routine, utilizing a 1x10 scheme. This was done 3x a week.

When I first started reading about this method, I though it was outdated, and they didn't know what they were doing. I was wrong! The 1x10 method set rep scheme is still a good way to condition beginners.

Casey Butt has written a very good modern approach to this method. Pay attention to his first program for beginners. It's meant to be done very lightly.

Beginners: Practical Starting Routines for The Drug-Free Trainee
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Old 04-08-2010, 07:23 AM   #17
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Jim Wendler said that alot of his success was due to the fact that he didn't have the internet growing up.

He had to figure **** out for himself, as the men of old did too.
This is one of the things that I think actually helped me quite a bit. I pretty much just had me and the weights. I had to piece together my own training split based on body feedback.

No one needed to tell me that the squat was king. I kind of figured that out because it kicked my a$$. And no one needed to tell me to add weight to the bar - I thought that was the point.

One thing I'm really thankful for is that I didn't have the burden of OCD macronutrient counting and the pressure to eat all clean, all day. I'm also glad no one told me to train for mind-muscle connection, or any other number of bull**** ways to train.

I can't stress this point enough...most routines on the net are not optimal for beginners. Most lifters didn't make most of their gains on the programs they now use. I don't say that to put anyone down...its simply a reality.

Programs get complicated when gains slow down.

Simple is always better, especially as a beginner.
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Old 04-08-2010, 07:34 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by onetiredkris View Post
I highly disagree with this. A beginner should use varied rep ranges and stick to mostly low weight and high reps, jumping to 5 rep sets would push them to lift numbers beyond their form (not only non-optimal for growth but also dangerous). A beginners body isn't even accustomed to lifting weight yet ready to max out its potential (which would just be broken in a few weeks anyway)

5x5's/3x5's and 5-3-1 shouldn't even be considered until a great deal of base muscle and strength have been acquired.
I have to disagree to a point OTK, a 3x5 or park style 5x5 is fine for a beginner as long as they start light and gradually build up the weight. also i believe it is important for them to use a routine like that that will have them using a good weight relatively quickly, inorder to get them used to the strain of a decent weight and hard set. Now if were talking about a true green beginner who has never touched a weight, then yes they can start with a little higher rep range for a few weeks before lowering the reps and upping the weights inorder to get a feel for it. But they need to move into lower rep ranges and higher weight after those first few weeks inorder to start building confidence under a bar.
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Old 04-08-2010, 08:52 AM   #19
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With most things in life, the old school "hard" way is the best.
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Old 04-08-2010, 08:59 AM   #20
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With most things in life, the old school "hard" way is the best.
Most of the important aspects of training I've learned have been from the old school naturals.

I mentioned this to Glwanabe...sometimes it's easy to forget that these old school guys had decades of knowledge and experience behind what they were doing.

Today the natural game is much different. Many young naturals try to train like their enhanced counterparts. While this can be, and is effective, it definitely waters down the reality of what works best for most naturals.
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