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Old 02-01-2010, 09:47 AM   #1
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Default Chaos and Pain Training Discussion

I've been reading the C&P logs on the forum, and I read the C and P blog. I wanted to get a discussion going on the Chaos and Pain training style. I've seen a thread over at Wannebebig [/URL]where some advanced powerlifters dismissed C and P. I don't want this to turn into a raging f**k them type of thread. I just want to ask 2 simple questions:

1) Do you believe Chaos and Pain is for beginners and intermediates? Why or why not? At what point should Chaos and Pain be considered as a training style?

2) What are the cons to this style? Also, why do you believe some advanced powerlifters dismiss it?

Let's please keep this discussion civil. I am not for or against Chaos and Pain. I think a healthy discussion on the topic would benefit all.

Here are some of the comments from WBB. I post them so we can address some of the points they bring up.

Looks like fun. But it also looks like... Useless.
Lots of bravado and such, but I don't know how applicable it is to everyone. My joints would be screwed and I would likely be injured if I tried to train like that. Personally, there are a bunch of other programs I would suggest before this one, but if you want to try it go ahead.
Just like any program, it will work for some.
This is not a program for a beginner or an early intermediate. Read: "Natural lifter".
No thanks.
I read the program, and it is just that. Chaos and Pain. Has no order rhyme or reason, and my joint hurt just reading it. so ill second HB and say no thanks
As said already above the exercises seem rather jumbled and thrown together but here is some more specific criticism.

"One can build their capacity for work to whatever level they so desire, provided they're willing to invest enough time and effort."

This is demonstrably false. Yes you can immensely improve your capacity for work if you go about it the right way...but there is a limit for everyone and for some it's a lot sooner than others.

"Sets of 10-12 are useless..." Again false. They work and have worked well for many people. Just as higher reps may also work for some and lower reps for others.

"85% of 1 rep max on everything". He does add a caveat that if you are squatting 3 times a week the middle one should be light, but even with the caveat, this is a good way to injure yourself. It seems like a mixture of Bill Starr, Dogcrapp, Bulgarian powerlifting and some high rep-work thrown in altogether.

"Minimum of five days a week" (for training).

This is fine if you can handle it, but it needs to be properly designed (for example you shouldn't have four upper body days and one lower body day).

On the sample program he gave below, shoulders are being worked six days a week, not to mention the rest of upper body.
One or (at the most two) days of rest. Maybe if you are a highly advanced lifter you can get away with this stuff.
Six upper body days and only 3 lower body days (I don't count calf raises as a lower body day if they are the only lower body exercise done.)

Conclusion. It may work for him for now, but that doesn't mean it will work for others. I wouldn't do this nor recommend it.
yeah wtf.... 85% of your 1RM for everything?? i guarantee he is going to kill himself not warming up one day.
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