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Old 11-16-2014, 06:39 PM   #1
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Default Experienced lifters what do you do to get stronger

What's up everyone, I'm having a rough time getting stronger. im doing advanced madcow, for the third time, only because the first time I did it, it increased all my lifts. Second time I got stuck too soon, so I restarted the routine and changed the rep ranges from 5x5 to 10x3, now im close to the intensification phase which will change from 3x3 to 10x1.
However, Today I failed the third rep on the bench at 115kg, I hate it because ,I've done 117.5 kgx3 before. Same with the squat and deadlift, even though I haven't failed reps, the weights are feeling heavier than they are suposed to.

BTW this routine has me squat 3 times a week, bench two times, press and deadlift once. Im doing this only because, after trying other routines, high frequency is what gave me the most gains.

So, in your more experienced eyes what would you advice me to do?
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Old 11-16-2014, 06:43 PM   #2
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My advice is just keep grinding. When you hit all your reps, add 5 pounds. You may not hit all your reps next time, but keep adding reps, even if it's just one a week, until you hit them all. Repeat for a year or so.
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Old 11-16-2014, 09:08 PM   #3
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Anyone benching 117kg (265lb) for a triple is probably beyond any prewritten program that uses higher frequency and linear progression. If you want to continue to push forward and really squeeze everything you can out of your training you need to start doing lots of reading and learning about different types of programming and periodization.

What's worked best for me is to take what I like from the different programs I've run and mash them together. I took parts of DC, HIT, Sheiko, and Westside and made it into something that works very well for me, but I'll also move away from what original plan I had on a given day if that planned work isn't right for me that day. Sometimes I skip sessions altogether if I'm not ready. I tend to use higher frequency, but sometimes I'll just not train for 4 or 5 days if I'm just not feeling it.
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Old 11-16-2014, 09:55 PM   #4
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thanks for the replies,
Bruteforce, that's what I always do, I keep going. Sometimes I do one more set rep If I didn't complete the reps I wanted in a set because I get pissed, doesn't happen often, though. However linear progression doesnĄt work for me anymore, it only works for a few weeks then I start to regress. which I find odd because Im not that strong 122.5kg/270 bench, 172.5kg/380 squat, haven't tried a deadlift max yet but did 197.5kg/435 for a triple about 2 months ago.

Soldier, the program Im doing right now is a periodization program. I get what you are saying,though. That's why I changed the rep/sets but kept the volume, I know is not a big of a deal but Im expermenting. I tried different programs too and I've learned something from all of them. For example, sheiko did almost nothing for me, except improove my form, 5/3/1 was ok but but on the deload week I always got weaker, and soe other things.

I do read articles but sometimes the info is conflictive. which book or source of information do you recomend to learn more about programing? or author I heard poliquin is a great coach to learn from.
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Old 11-16-2014, 11:30 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Narek View Post
Soldier, the program Im doing right now is a periodization program. I get what you are saying,though. That's why I changed the rep/sets but kept the volume, I know is not a big of a deal but Im expermenting. I tried different programs too and I've learned something from all of them. For example, sheiko did almost nothing for me, except improove my form, 5/3/1 was ok but but on the deload week I always got weaker, and soe other things.

I do read articles but sometimes the info is conflictive. which book or source of information do you recomend to learn more about programing? or author I heard poliquin is a great coach to learn from.
Experimenting is great, even if it means small changes. As far as periodization, all that word means is how you plan out your training, and it could mean tons of different things. I've personally found that simply setting out goals and breaking it into cycles alone can work wonders for keeping you on track and progressing. I'm using block periodization at the moment, but "traditional" easily defined periodization isn't always necessary.

You're absolutely right about conflicting information in articles, especially on sites like Tnation that put out tons of stuff, but I've found that the more I've read the more I've started to develop my own ideas and been able to come to my own conclusions. It sounds like you're already on that path. I don't really like full length books on training, but for the opposite reason. When you take in a ton of information from a single source it gets a little too easy to believe everything that particular person is saying and dismiss things from other sources. I'd personally rather read tons of ideas from lots of people, because if you keep hearing the same things over and over you can bet there's some credence to it.

I guess the main thing for me is that I just don't like prewritten programs. There have been so many days that I was supposed to train but didn't, or went in for a lighter day but ended up setting PRs. That's why I push periodization. I believe in instinctual training, but if you go purely on instinct you can pretty quickly lose focus on where your sessions are taking you. If you set out a plan by saying something like "I'm going to spend the next 4 weeks focusing mostly on building size with an emphasis on my lagging quads in preparation to focus on strength the 4 weeks after that, and my goal is to set a new PR on squat at the end", then you have enough structure that you can allow yourself some flexibility in the day to day programming while still keeping an eye on your time frame and eventual goals. That also gives you a chance to look back at what you did and see if it really got you the results you wanted.
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Old 11-17-2014, 09:07 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Narek View Post
What's up everyone, I'm having a rough time getting stronger. im doing advanced madcow, for the third time, only because the first time I did it, it increased all my lifts. Second time I got stuck too soon, so I restarted the routine and changed the rep ranges from 5x5 to 10x3, now im close to the intensification phase which will change from 3x3 to 10x1.
However, Today I failed the third rep on the bench at 115kg, I hate it because ,I've done 117.5 kgx3 before. Same with the squat and deadlift, even though I haven't failed reps, the weights are feeling heavier than they are suposed to.

BTW this routine has me squat 3 times a week, bench two times, press and deadlift once. Im doing this only because, after trying other routines, high frequency is what gave me the most gains.

So, in your more experienced eyes what would you advice me to do?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Narek View Post
thanks for the replies,
Bruteforce, that's what I always do, I keep going. Sometimes I do one more set rep If I didn't complete the reps I wanted in a set because I get pissed, doesn't happen often, though. However linear progression doesnĄt work for me anymore, it only works for a few weeks then I start to regress. which I find odd because Im not that strong 122.5kg/270 bench, 172.5kg/380 squat, haven't tried a deadlift max yet but did 197.5kg/435 for a triple about 2 months ago.

Soldier, the program Im doing right now is a periodization program. I get what you are saying,though. That's why I changed the rep/sets but kept the volume, I know is not a big of a deal but Im expermenting. I tried different programs too and I've learned something from all of them. For example, sheiko did almost nothing for me, except improove my form, 5/3/1 was ok but but on the deload week I always got weaker, and soe other things.

I do read articles but sometimes the info is conflictive. which book or source of information do you recomend to learn more about programing? or author I heard poliquin is a great coach to learn from.
Too much program jumping. Get with someone who knows how to make people stronger and work with them. Even after 15 years of this stuff I still work over my plans with other people. The fact is that we blind ourselves sometimes with our own work and need an outside prospective. Best of luck in your training!
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Old 11-18-2014, 10:45 PM   #7
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soldier, i agree with you specially in that i have to learn from everyone, long time ago I was only listening to one source of information, now I realize that everything might work, one just has to try things out.
J_Byrd, yeah, I was thinking on finding someone who could coach me. A friend found someone for me like a month ago. But I havent't met with him because I still feel like I can get a little bit stronger by myself.
I'm not a program hopper, I'm actually doing the same program for the third time. Is just that the second time I got stuck so I changed the reps/sets and started lighter
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Old 11-19-2014, 09:44 AM   #8
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I'm not a program hopper, I'm actually doing the same program for the third time. Is just that the second time I got stuck so I changed the reps/sets and started lighter
Then that's not the program, so you changed it. Starting over lighter would be fine, but changing the rep/sets would not be the same program anymore. Same principles yes, program, no. Nothing wrong with adjusting programs to fit your needs, but from everything I have read so far it sets off alarms to me that you don't really know what you need. Find an outside source to point you in the right direction (obviously you are doing that right now here at MAB). We over complicate training way too much, its really simple.

Be cautious of who you take advice from over the internet. The people who have replied to you in this thread, are in my opinion very knowledgeable people. Best of luck getting things on track.
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Old 11-19-2014, 10:03 AM   #9
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Then that's not the program, so you changed it. Starting over lighter would be fine, but changing the rep/sets would not be the same program anymore. Same principles yes, program, no. Nothing wrong with adjusting programs to fit your needs, but from everything I have read so far it sets off alarms to me that you don't really know what you need. Find an outside source to point you in the right direction (obviously you are doing that right now here at MAB). We over complicate training way too much, its really simple.

Be cautious of who you take advice from over the internet. The people who have replied to you in this thread, are in my opinion very knowledgeable people. Best of luck getting things on track.
J, I'm actually honored that you said that last statement. Thanks man. Just to clarify, my response was more about answering the question of what I do to get stronger. That's why my response was a little more complex.

I used to be a habitual program hopper, but it wasn't because I thought programs didn't work. Instead, I thought that everything would work if I could tweak it right, so I always wanted to try a new idea. The result was that I didn't build much strength at first, but I learned a ton, and it worked out well for me personally. I think that perspective clouded my judgment a little on the topic of program hopping.
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