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Old 05-22-2014, 01:04 PM   #1
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Default Raw lifters and bench shirts

I just read a comment on Charles Staley's article:

http://www.t-nation.com/powerful-wor...d-bad-and-ugly

"Dominator: @Lonnie123: One thing I can promise...no Raw lifter can throw a shirt or suit on and get 50% carryover without a lot of time training with gear."

The first time I trained in a shirt with Roger Ryan I was doing 505 to a 1-board. My meet bench at that time was 350. That's pretty close to 50%. The weight wasn't the issue, the groove was. I am pretty sure, push come to shove, I could have hit 525+ if the groove hadn't spooked me.

I have no horse in this race, but my first shirt experience was pretty close to a 50% boost. I am pretty sure if I could have trained with Roger every weekend, and wanted to bench, I would have been doing 525+ without "a lot of time training in gear." Maybe 2-3 sessions.

I understand uncertainty, and that I might not have hit 50%. I just wanted to share my only experience because of the absolute statement that was made.
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Old 05-22-2014, 02:02 PM   #2
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I didn't really think much of that article. To me, the gear bashing shows a completely lack of understanding about just what it takes to compete in equipment. it just makes everything 5 times harder and more complex. You don't just put a magic T shirt on and lift more weight.

Steve, I think you're a bit of an exception in this case. Not only are you an exerpeinced and knowledgable lifter, you were also with someone who really knew his stuff. It does, however, go to show you why it's best to avoid such black and white statements like this.
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Old 05-22-2014, 02:35 PM   #3
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It does, however, go to show you why it's best to avoid such black and white statements like this.

I honestly didn't read the article. I just saw the comment and wanted to share my personal experience because it was such a black and white response.

Curious to see how other raw lifters did their first several times out.
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Old 05-22-2014, 03:34 PM   #4
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I agree with the article for the most part. Steroids in powerlifting only thing kind of loses me. Every sport is rot with roids. Powerlifting from the outside is weird looking you got a guy setting a raw record, then a single ply, then a triple ply, then a split back shirt, yak yak yak ...... when I started to get into powerlifting recently I would see these 3000 pound totals and think what the f***? And the bench on that total was more then the deadlift. Again, what the f***? I've ask equipped guys why they only lift equipped and its always complicated and defensive. I don't know why I'm genuinely asking because I don't know. I tried bench shirt one time, it probable wasn't fitted right, and definitely notice a significant difference. I was only doing reps with a weight I could handle though, I didn't try to max out. I can see were that would be more difficult.
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Old 05-22-2014, 05:51 PM   #5
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50% is HUGE! I'm sure there are a few guys getting 50% out of gear but the only one I can think of is Henry Thomason somewhere around 400 raw 800 shirt. I think most are doing really good to get 30-35%. Anything over about 30 definitely takes some work. Ryan Kennelly was getting about 35% to put everything in perspective
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Old 05-22-2014, 06:17 PM   #6
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50% is HUGE! I'm sure there are a few guys getting 50% out of gear but the only one I can think of is Henry Thomason somewhere around 400 raw 800 shirt. I think most are doing really good to get 30-35%. Anything over about 30 definitely takes some work. Ryan Kennelly was getting about 35% to put everything in perspective
I think a 400 raw- 800 shirted is a 100% increase.
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Old 05-22-2014, 06:21 PM   #7
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Scot Mendelson's best official equipped bench is extremely close to 150% of his best official raw bench, from what I can tell. FWIW.
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Old 05-22-2014, 07:22 PM   #8
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I think a 400 raw- 800 shirted is a 100% increase.
That is true but he is only getting 50% out of his bench shirt total. 800*.50=400 unless I am thinking about it wrong which is very possible
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Old 05-22-2014, 07:52 PM   #9
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I took 465 to one board which was a 40% increase. Plenty of room in the tank. Pressed it right up no problem. I didnt go higher because I didnt have a liftoff.
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Old 05-22-2014, 07:53 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Soldier View Post
I didn't really think much of that article. To me, the gear bashing shows a completely lack of understanding about just what it takes to compete in equipment. it just makes everything 5 times harder and more complex. You don't just put a magic T shirt on and lift more weight.
I think of it as like formula one vs stock car racing. Yes it's the equipment, but you need a different skillset.

Formula one doesn't interest me, stock car's not bad. In either case it's a very artificial situation, a defined track to race along, but formula one's more artificial. Likewise, there's more to "strength" than squat, bench and deadlift, just focusing on those things leads to strange results as Wendler described in his intro to 531. But focusing on the equipped lifts gives stranger results still.

Most people I train don't want to race even stock cars though, they just want to be better drivers.

Joe Ladnier did an interview with Rip recently, he commented that 2-3 years of equipped lifting fucked him up. Seems like the raw lifters get 2-3 decades. Maybe I'm showing my age when I say longevity's important in what is after all only a recreational sport.
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