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-   -   Westside - Wendler's 5/3/1 Hydrid (http://www.muscleandbrawn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1648)

BendtheBar 01-07-2010 05:31 PM

Westside - Wendler's 5/3/1 Hydrid
 
I need some input. I'm writing a comprehensive article on Wendler's 5/3/1, and want to put together some suggestions fro Wendler's/Westside hybrid(s). These don't have to include specific exercises....looking more for generic templates...like:

Monday - Wendler Bench Day + Westside DE Bench, etc. Or whatever.

If you made a hybrid, how would you run the combo?

I'm trying to figure out the logistics of running Wendlers 5/3/1 4 days a week and adding in DE work.

Grim83 01-07-2010 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BendtheBar (Post 18777)
I need some input. I'm writing a comprehensive article on Wendler's 5/3/1, and want to put together some suggestions fro Wendler's/Westside hybrid(s). These don't have to include specific exercises....looking more for generic templates...like:

Monday - Wendler Bench Day + Westside DE Bench, etc. Or whatever.

If you made a hybrid, how would you run the combo?

I'm trying to figure out the logistics of running Wendlers 5/3/1 4 days a week and adding in DE work.

dude that is a hard one to do, mainly due to the huge differences, and the fact that inorder to combine them you'd lose most of the integrity of each system

BendtheBar 01-07-2010 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grim83 (Post 18779)
dude that is a hard one to do, mainly due to the huge differences, and the fact that inorder to combine them you'd lose most of the integrity of each system

I wouldn't consider it hard. Westside focuses on 3's on ME day. You could sub in Wendler's percentages. Both leave the door open to conjugated assistance work. The primary question is ...what is the best way to structure things logistically?

You could keep a 4-day Wendlers, and bump in DE work twice a week, on alternating days. I could probably make 10 different ways to mesh them.

I know some of the PLs on the forum have meshed them...BWYS, BBG, etc. I'm curious to get their feedback from the trenches.

jwood 01-07-2010 05:54 PM

I would use wendler's percentage's on the max effort day, since the final set is still a max set, just for max reps. I would keep the DE days exactly the same.

Monday DE Bench 8x3
Wednesday: DE Squat 10x2, Deadlift 1x6
Thursday: ME Bench (Wendler's Percentages)
Saturday:ME Squat/Deadlift (Wendler's Percentages)

I personally have no problem doing heavy squats and then doing heavy deadlifts so I think they could be done on the same day, I do this now. Also, if you want to do military press I would do on the DE day of bench, I would do it after the speed bench, you should not be too wore out after speed bench.

This is how I would do it.

BendtheBar 01-07-2010 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwood (Post 18786)

I personally have no problem doing heavy squats and then doing heavy deadlifts so I think they could be done on the same day, I do this now. Also, if you want to do military press I would do on the DE day of bench, I would do it after the speed bench, you should not be too wore out after speed bench.

This is how I would do it.

Thanks Jwood. Much appreciated. Your post made me think about some possibilities, including dropping the max OH press work and just using overhead press as assistance.

What would you guys think about having a max deadlift AND mac squat day separately, and alternating DE work each week? Like one week DE squat on max deadlift day, and the next DE deadlift on max squat day? Just thinking out load...

kman025 01-07-2010 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BendtheBar (Post 18792)
Thanks Jwood. Much appreciated. Your post made me think about some possibilities, including dropping the max OH press work and just using overhead press as assistance.

What would you guys think about having a max deadlift AND mac squat day separately, and alternating DE work each week? Like one week DE squat on max deadlift day, and the next DE deadlift on max squat day? Just thinking out load...

i know im not an experienced person, so i have no fucking clue if that would be beneficial, but i very well may do this in the future.

Grim83 01-07-2010 06:24 PM

one problem i do see is that if you use 5/3/1 for ME days, then you automatically throw off the set up of WS. The progressions are very different, 5/3/1 allows for weight progression once a month, where as WS is constantly striving for more weight, i mean your supposed to max on ME days and go for a 5ib increase at least

jwood 01-07-2010 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grim83 (Post 18795)
one problem i do see is that if you use 5/3/1 for ME days, then you automatically throw off the set up of WS. The progressions are very different, 5/3/1 allows for weight progression once a month, where as WS is constantly striving for more weight, i mean your supposed to max on ME days and go for a 5ib increase at least

You are also supposed to switch up your max effort exercises every 1-3 weeks which you do not do on Wendler's program. It is throwing off the set up of westside, it is a hybrid, things are going to be messed up from both programs. You will still be applying a max effort on your final set, by going for a maximum number of reps.

I am not really sure what you are saying but I did something like this before for a while, basically my lower body days include ME and DE, like on ME squat days I did DE deadlifts vice versa, I see no problem with this. Just my personal opinion, I do not see any decrease in my deadlifts after squatting. Sometimes I think it helps, but I understand not wanting to max out 2 lifts on the same day, so your way sounds good.

BendtheBar 01-08-2010 09:31 AM

Things will get thrown to the side with a hybrid, for sure. The main reason I'm bastardizing these programs is to show possibilities - to get people thinking, and thinking for themselves.

Some people don't like DE work, so they choose Wendlers. Some people get great gains from Wendlers, but are curious about adding DE work. Some guys do Westside, but maybe want to incorporate simple cycles of intensity like Wendlers.

Westside, at it's core, is a program developed by AAS users. While it's very effective, it can tax the heck out of some naturals. So I see Westside with some simple cycles as one possible reason for bastardization, and I see adding DE work to Wendler's as another possible need.

Just thinking out loud.

Grim...I look at Westside as triples working to max singles. I look at Wendlers as a slight variation from this template, hitting the last set hard each week. Again, keep in mind that Westside wasn't developed specifically for naturals. Overall, the "money sets" aren't too far off. Wendlers is more of a micro-cycled Westside, IMHO.

Since Wendler's is wide open with regards to assistance work, I think sliding some Westside ideas into Wendlers is actually a good idea, and one worthy of toying with.

Jwood...I see no problem with doing ME and DE on the same day.

bwys61 01-08-2010 10:30 AM

Here is a consideration

Using the Westside method, it is "said" that a Dynamic Effort workout can always substitute for a Max Effort Workout. With that said, since Wendlers 5-3-1 is mainly a DE workout, with one Max Effort Day each cycle, you could Do Wendlers stuff on Westside ME Days and do Speed work with accomodating resistance on DE Days.


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