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Old 07-01-2013, 07:49 AM   #1
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Have some questions about sheiko for those who are knowledgeable

There are a dozen different routines or cycles, are they supposed to be done in succession or do you stick with one?

If in succession, do you just jump into the next cycle after the previous?

Do you test your maxes at any given time or just at meets?

Deadlift to knees: is this just stopping the lift at knees and putting bar down?

Deadlift off boxes: I assume this is like a rack pull, what height is appropriate? I was thinking a 12" deadlift as form seems to be altered with a higher pull.
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Old 07-01-2013, 10:39 AM   #2
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Old 07-01-2013, 01:12 PM   #3
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Sheiko is a man not a program. The sheiko numbered routines are stuff he wrote for specific lifters.
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Old 07-01-2013, 01:30 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Bill View Post
Have some questions about sheiko for those who are knowledgeable

There are a dozen different routines or cycles, are they supposed to be done in succession or do you stick with one?

If in succession, do you just jump into the next cycle after the previous?

Do you test your maxes at any given time or just at meets?

Deadlift to knees: is this just stopping the lift at knees and putting bar down?

Deadlift off boxes: I assume this is like a rack pull, what height is appropriate? I was thinking a 12" deadlift as form seems to be altered with a higher pull.
I've read a lot on the Sheiko programs, always been tempted to run a solid 12 weeks to test it out.

The different cycles typically have different purposes and are sometimes aimed at different levels of ability. If I remember rightly, 29 and 37 are the typical starting point when getting into Sheiko, 29 being very similar to 37 but with reduced volume. 32 is a peaking cycle so a common 12 week run for beginners would be 29-29-32 or 29-37-32. So you'd build up to max testing/meet week.

Deadlift to knees is a tricky one and some people differ in opinion but from what I gather, you have to look at the percentages. If the percentages seem pretty light e.g. <80%, its pause at the knee and lockout. If the percentages are fairly high, pause at the knee and drop but I think this only shows up in the more advanced programs.

Rack pulls ye, I'd say always keep them below the knee and then wherever you tend to slow down, for me 12-14" tends to be my weakest point.

Most of my reading on Sheiko is from over on the BMF Sports forum, it's dead but there is some decent info archived there. There's also a 12 week prep phase over there that can be used to build up to the volume. BMF Sports Sheiko Training Forums - Home

I think I attached a spreadsheet with some of the programs in and charts showing the differing volume and intensity (or not, I tried).

Pretty sure there's lifters around here that use Sheiko programs that would know far more than I but hopefully helps a little.
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Old 07-01-2013, 01:40 PM   #5
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Many thanks. This is quite helpful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JTurner View Post
I've read a lot on the Sheiko programs, always been tempted to run a solid 12 weeks to test it out.

The different cycles typically have different purposes and are sometimes aimed at different levels of ability. If I remember rightly, 29 and 37 are the typical starting point when getting into Sheiko, 29 being very similar to 37 but with reduced volume. 32 is a peaking cycle so a common 12 week run for beginners would be 29-29-32 or 29-37-32. So you'd build up to max testing/meet week.

Deadlift to knees is a tricky one and some people differ in opinion but from what I gather, you have to look at the percentages. If the percentages seem pretty light e.g. <80%, its pause at the knee and lockout. If the percentages are fairly high, pause at the knee and drop but I think this only shows up in the more advanced programs.

Rack pulls ye, I'd say always keep them below the knee and then wherever you tend to slow down, for me 12-14" tends to be my weakest point.

Most of my reading on Sheiko is from over on the BMF Sports forum, it's dead but there is some decent info archived there. There's also a 12 week prep phase over there that can be used to build up to the volume. BMF Sports Sheiko Training Forums - Home

I think I attached a spreadsheet with some of the programs in and charts showing the differing volume and intensity (or not, I tried).

Pretty sure there's lifters around here that use Sheiko programs that would know far more than I but hopefully helps a little.
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Old 07-02-2013, 01:42 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by fenrisulfr View Post
Sheiko is a man not a program. The sheiko numbered routines are stuff he wrote for specific lifters.
It doesn't mean you can't do them and see awesome improvements, though. The only MAJOR difference is the accessory work, which I (and others) believe you should be replacing with what you actually need, anyway. For the most part, if a lifter is new to high volume (and high frequency benching, cause really 2x/week squatting isn't high frequency), then the rep schemes will work just fine without much tweaking. It's obviously ideal to tailor rep schemes to your individual needs, but if you're just starting this style of training, that can be difficult and intimidating.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill View Post
Have some questions about sheiko for those who are knowledgeable

There are a dozen different routines or cycles, are they supposed to be done in succession or do you stick with one?
Definitely succession. If you're new to high volume, start with 29. If not, it really isn't necessary. As mentioned before, 32 is a peaking program, so often 29-37-30-32 or 37-30-32 is used. You don't NEED to be in the CMS/MS Classifications to do those, but you certainly need to have a very high work capacity to get through them. And yes, people that aren't used to volume but still have a high meet total can still get crushed by the CMS programs.

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Originally Posted by Bill View Post
If in succession, do you just jump into the next cycle after the previous?
Yes, no deload is necessary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill View Post
Do you test your maxes at any given time or just at meets?
There is a skills evaluation in 32. It's the first week, where one of the days is essentially a mock meet. That is the only time you go near a max, but I don't even like to do it, so I count 32 as a three week cycle and start from week 2. Whatever floats your boat.

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Originally Posted by Bill View Post
Deadlift to knees: is this just stopping the lift at knees and putting bar down?

Deadlift off boxes: I assume this is like a rack pull, what height is appropriate? I was thinking a 12" deadlift as form seems to be altered with a higher pull.
Lots of different opinions here, but most of the experienced "Sheiko" lifters finish the lift. The main purpose of a pause deadlift/deadlift to knees is to work on proper positioning at the beginning of the lift. Proper starting position is very important for lock outs, so finish the lift (IMO)

Deadlift off boxes is where you tailor to your own needs. Pick the height you will most benefit from. That being said, some people find it very difficult to start at certain points, and the percents are high on some box deadlift days. You DO NOT WANT TO FAIL EVER ON SHEIKO NO MATTER WHAT LIFT IT IS. So make sure you pick a height you can do. This is another area I customize. I don't think box deadlifts help me much, so I drop the percent by like 5% and do it from the floor. Whatever you want.
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Old 07-03-2013, 07:55 PM   #7
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Thank you sir. Great info.

Contemplating starting the week after my meet or doing a bb routine. Opposite ends of the spectrum, but I feel I can use some extra mass.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradox View Post
It doesn't mean you can't do them and see awesome improvements, though. The only MAJOR difference is the accessory work, which I (and others) believe you should be replacing with what you actually need, anyway. For the most part, if a lifter is new to high volume (and high frequency benching, cause really 2x/week squatting isn't high frequency), then the rep schemes will work just fine without much tweaking. It's obviously ideal to tailor rep schemes to your individual needs, but if you're just starting this style of training, that can be difficult and intimidating.



Definitely succession. If you're new to high volume, start with 29. If not, it really isn't necessary. As mentioned before, 32 is a peaking program, so often 29-37-30-32 or 37-30-32 is used. You don't NEED to be in the CMS/MS Classifications to do those, but you certainly need to have a very high work capacity to get through them. And yes, people that aren't used to volume but still have a high meet total can still get crushed by the CMS programs.



Yes, no deload is necessary.



There is a skills evaluation in 32. It's the first week, where one of the days is essentially a mock meet. That is the only time you go near a max, but I don't even like to do it, so I count 32 as a three week cycle and start from week 2. Whatever floats your boat.



Lots of different opinions here, but most of the experienced "Sheiko" lifters finish the lift. The main purpose of a pause deadlift/deadlift to knees is to work on proper positioning at the beginning of the lift. Proper starting position is very important for lock outs, so finish the lift (IMO)

Deadlift off boxes is where you tailor to your own needs. Pick the height you will most benefit from. That being said, some people find it very difficult to start at certain points, and the percents are high on some box deadlift days. You DO NOT WANT TO FAIL EVER ON SHEIKO NO MATTER WHAT LIFT IT IS. So make sure you pick a height you can do. This is another area I customize. I don't think box deadlifts help me much, so I drop the percent by like 5% and do it from the floor. Whatever you want.
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Old 07-03-2013, 08:42 PM   #8
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Thank you sir. Great info.

Contemplating starting the week after my meet or doing a bb routine. Opposite ends of the spectrum, but I feel I can use some extra mass.
I was going to do a body building routine as well after my last meet, but then I manned up and continued Sheiko. I just through in the assistance that I personally wanted to improve on (arm size this go around). You can also tailor the program a bit to get a few extra days of higher rep ranges (4-6 vs 2-3). You would be surprised at the size quality volume, even at lower rep ranges, will put on. 5x5, 5x3, 6x2 etc is awesome all around. The downsets also provide a ton of volume for you to grow.
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Old 07-03-2013, 08:50 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Paradox View Post
I was going to do a body building routine as well after my last meet, but then I manned up and continued Sheiko. I just through in the assistance that I personally wanted to improve on (arm size this go around). You can also tailor the program a bit to get a few extra days of higher rep ranges (4-6 vs 2-3). You would be surprised at the size quality volume, even at lower rep ranges, will put on. 5x5, 5x3, 6x2 etc is awesome all around. The downsets also provide a ton of volume for you to grow.
Since you are calling me a pussy, I guess ill have to go with sheiko following the meet
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Old 07-04-2013, 07:31 AM   #10
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Since you are calling me a pussy, I guess ill have to go with sheiko following the meet
hehe Really though, high volume training is the way to go. Sheiko is one iteration of that, and after you train through the written programs for awhile you'll be able to adjust it (or make something new) to really meet your needs.

Also, gah, can't believe I used through instead of threw. Kill me now.
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