Muscle and Brawn Forums
 

Go Back   Muscle and Brawn Forums > Training > Powerlifting & Strength Training
Mark Forums Read
Register Articles Members List Search Today's Posts

Notices

Powerlifting & Strength Training Topics related to powerlifting and strength training.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-28-2013, 07:58 AM   #1
Dray
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 10,100, Level: 67 Points: 10,100, Level: 67 Points: 10,100, Level: 67
Activity: 6% Activity: 6% Activity: 6%
 

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: tldu
Posts: 4,095
Training Type: Fullbody
Fav Exercise: bench press
Reputation: 245355
Dray is a master memberDray is a master memberDray is a master memberDray is a master memberDray is a master memberDray is a master memberDray is a master memberDray is a master memberDray is a master memberDray is a master memberDray is a master member
Default 5/3/1 SST

So I'm seriously considering starting 5/3/1 of the "Simplest Strength Template" variety, as of next week. Been mucking around doing my own thing for a while, and not getting very far - probably time to pick a program with gradual progression, and stick with it for ages, I think.

Unfortunately, there is no incline bench + rack setup in the gym I go to (I know, this sucks), so I can't actually do incline BB press at all. And that's one of the core accessory lifts... so I was wondering whether weighted dips would do instead, even though they're quite different in more than one way. They're awesome, but maybe not appropriate for that usage(?)

Otherwise, I should be good to go - I'd just have to test straight-leg deadlifts tomorrow, because I've never done them before.

I could do incline DB press (in place of BB), but then getting the percentages even remotely close to precise would be impossible.
Dray is online now   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 02-28-2013, 08:51 AM   #2
Off Road
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 17,091, Level: 83 Points: 17,091, Level: 83 Points: 17,091, Level: 83
Activity: 1% Activity: 1% Activity: 1%
 
Off Road's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 7,606
Reputation: 786994
Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!
Default

Weighted dips would be an excellent alternative. You could also use lighter shoulder presses, decline push-ups, dumbbell presses, sled presses, machines presses, floor presses, handstand push-ups, and whatever else you can think of. The assistance lifts are just there to help you get stronger and bigger and aren't meant to be stressed over at all. In fact it would be a good idea to switch around the assistance lifts every few months anyways. Experiment and find which ones work best for you. The only constant is making steady progress on the main lifts, everything else can be added to, thrown away, or changed.
Off Road is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2013, 08:59 AM   #3
ndrwdslv
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 3,978, Level: 40 Points: 3,978, Level: 40 Points: 3,978, Level: 40
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
 
ndrwdslv's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Anchorage, AK
Posts: 573
Training Exp: 3
Fav Exercise: Squat
Fav Supp: Lactose-free Milk
Reputation: 37640
ndrwdslv is a lifting machinendrwdslv is a lifting machinendrwdslv is a lifting machinendrwdslv is a lifting machinendrwdslv is a lifting machinendrwdslv is a lifting machinendrwdslv is a lifting machinendrwdslv is a lifting machinendrwdslv is a lifting machinendrwdslv is a lifting machinendrwdslv is a lifting machine
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dray View Post
I could do incline DB press (in place of BB), but then getting the percentages even remotely close to precise would be impossible.
What do you mean?
Calculate incline DB press 1RM, and calculate your %..
ndrwdslv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2013, 09:18 AM   #4
Dray
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 10,100, Level: 67 Points: 10,100, Level: 67 Points: 10,100, Level: 67
Activity: 6% Activity: 6% Activity: 6%
 

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: tldu
Posts: 4,095
Training Type: Fullbody
Fav Exercise: bench press
Reputation: 245355
Dray is a master memberDray is a master memberDray is a master memberDray is a master memberDray is a master memberDray is a master memberDray is a master memberDray is a master memberDray is a master memberDray is a master memberDray is a master member
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ndrwdslv View Post
What do you mean?
Calculate incline DB press 1RM, and calculate your %..
I mean that there isn't a convenient endless supply of dumbbells with precise ascending poundage at my gym, therefore the weights for each percentage lift (e.g., 65%, 75%, etc.) wouldn't be even close to precisely what they should be. They'd be all over the place, with big gaps - and besides, they only go so high as well.


And with regards to accessory lifts, with the "Simplest Strength Template", the primary accessory lifts *are* very much fixed in place, unlike with most other templates (except BBB). This is why I'm asking in the first place. I really like the looks of this template, but there's just that one issue, when it comes to the incline BB press.

You're right, Off Road, with regards to 5/3/1 in general (and most of its templates). Maybe not this one though (according to what I've read). With SST, the lift after the first (the one done "5/3/1" style) is also done at specific percentages, just different ones. And not like BBB lifts, either. Then, after those two things each session, you get to choose three lifts, one per body part - and these can be almost anything, with any weight really.
Dray is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2013, 09:36 AM   #5
Off Road
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 17,091, Level: 83 Points: 17,091, Level: 83 Points: 17,091, Level: 83
Activity: 1% Activity: 1% Activity: 1%
 
Off Road's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 7,606
Reputation: 786994
Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dray View Post
You're right, Off Road, with regards to 5/3/1 in general (and most of its templates). Maybe not this one though (according to what I've read). With SST, the lift after the first (the one done "5/3/1" style) is also done at specific percentages, just different ones. And not like BBB lifts, either. Then, after those two things each session, you get to choose three lifts, one per body part - and these can be almost anything, with any weight really.
That was kind of my point; will the percentages make it work THAT much better than any of the other "tried and true" progression schemes? Will your training completely bomb if you don't get your percentages correct on the incline press? Will the whole routine fail if you use percentages with your other assistance lifts but do something different for incline presses? It's just extra work for pressing strength, there are a lot of options, do whatever you can. Work hard on some bar dips and I doubt you'll see much of a difference in the long run.
Off Road is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2013, 09:44 AM   #6
Dray
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 10,100, Level: 67 Points: 10,100, Level: 67 Points: 10,100, Level: 67
Activity: 6% Activity: 6% Activity: 6%
 

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: tldu
Posts: 4,095
Training Type: Fullbody
Fav Exercise: bench press
Reputation: 245355
Dray is a master memberDray is a master memberDray is a master memberDray is a master memberDray is a master memberDray is a master memberDray is a master memberDray is a master memberDray is a master memberDray is a master memberDray is a master member
Default

Yeah, you're probably right. And speaking from a lot more experience (than me), I suspect.

I feel like such a noob*, especially around here, lol.

Could be I'd be better off with a different template, even.


* Maybe because I am, wrt lifting weights.
Dray is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2013, 10:03 AM   #7
mr_bigmuscles
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 3,064, Level: 34 Points: 3,064, Level: 34 Points: 3,064, Level: 34
Activity: 6% Activity: 6% Activity: 6%
 
mr_bigmuscles's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 548
Training Exp: about a year
Training Type: Fullbody
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Fav Supp: meat
Reputation: 13346
mr_bigmuscles is a dedicated contributormr_bigmuscles is a dedicated contributormr_bigmuscles is a dedicated contributormr_bigmuscles is a dedicated contributormr_bigmuscles is a dedicated contributormr_bigmuscles is a dedicated contributormr_bigmuscles is a dedicated contributormr_bigmuscles is a dedicated contributormr_bigmuscles is a dedicated contributormr_bigmuscles is a dedicated contributormr_bigmuscles is a dedicated contributor
Default

My solution to this same problem was to just pick a weight I could do 4x12 with and work towards 4x20. When I hit 4x20 I'll bump up to the next DB.
__________________
"Ignore the pain." - Vince Urbank

Log
mr_bigmuscles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2013, 10:14 AM   #8
Off Road
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 17,091, Level: 83 Points: 17,091, Level: 83 Points: 17,091, Level: 83
Activity: 1% Activity: 1% Activity: 1%
 
Off Road's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 7,606
Reputation: 786994
Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dray View Post

Could be I'd be better off with a different template, even.


* Maybe because I am, wrt lifting weights.
You could use that template, in fact since you are excited about it, I'd highly recommend it. Just make some changes to the incline press; use dumbbells and just get the percentages close, use bar dips, or ???
Off Road is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2013, 10:50 AM   #9
ndrwdslv
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 3,978, Level: 40 Points: 3,978, Level: 40 Points: 3,978, Level: 40
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
 
ndrwdslv's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Anchorage, AK
Posts: 573
Training Exp: 3
Fav Exercise: Squat
Fav Supp: Lactose-free Milk
Reputation: 37640
ndrwdslv is a lifting machinendrwdslv is a lifting machinendrwdslv is a lifting machinendrwdslv is a lifting machinendrwdslv is a lifting machinendrwdslv is a lifting machinendrwdslv is a lifting machinendrwdslv is a lifting machinendrwdslv is a lifting machinendrwdslv is a lifting machinendrwdslv is a lifting machine
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dray View Post
I mean that there isn't a convenient endless supply of dumbbells with precise ascending poundage at my gym, therefore the weights for each percentage lift (e.g., 65%, 75%, etc.) wouldn't be even close to precisely what they should be. They'd be all over the place, with big gaps - and besides, they only go so high as well.
Ah, right on! Wasn't sure if you were calculating the % based off of your BB BP or something, mah bad!

mr_bigmuscles' suggestion is what I'll be doing for DB work on my 5/3/1.
Find a weight I can do 5x10 reps with, and once I reach 5x15-20 reps, increase.

Otherwise, I'm using the SST template too, but replaced a couple exercises.
I wouldn't be hell bent on using what Wendler writes, find exercises that will help improve your weaknesses is the point IMO.
For example, I switched out the front squats with deficit deadlifts. I'ld rather do more deadlifts than FS right now.
Or, as the guys on this forum recommended, I'll be doing more squats after the 5/3/1 rather than RDL/GM.

Maybe do those Guillotine Presses as your carry-over and DB incline in your accessory, so you don't worry about the %?

And SST is a pretty awesome template!
ndrwdslv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2013, 11:01 AM   #10
leefarley
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 7,457, Level: 57 Points: 7,457, Level: 57 Points: 7,457, Level: 57
Activity: 8% Activity: 8% Activity: 8%
 

Join Date: May 2012
Location: England UK
Posts: 2,502
Training Exp: 2
Training Type: Fullbody
Fav Exercise: Benchpress
Fav Supp: protein powder
Reputation: 221477
leefarley is a master memberleefarley is a master memberleefarley is a master memberleefarley is a master memberleefarley is a master memberleefarley is a master memberleefarley is a master memberleefarley is a master memberleefarley is a master memberleefarley is a master memberleefarley is a master member
Default

i would do bar dips and db press variations.
leefarley is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:57 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.